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11-08-2013, 19:24
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#256
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,252
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Re: Climate Change
Even the well-known AGW denier Roy Spencer shows a continued temperature increase.
The use of 1998 as starting point for temperatures by a sailor in particular is distributing cherry picking. It was an especially strong El Nino year. Sailors should be more cognizant of the activities of the oceans.
I think we should use 1993 as a starting point, Pinatubo and all. Better yet 1985.
__________________
CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
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11-08-2013, 19:26
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#257
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,252
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman
Sourcing officially upgraded from Alex Jones to British tabloids. Well, at least he's heading in the right direction.
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Soon he might discover Google Scholar ( Google Scholar) and real science.
__________________
CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
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11-08-2013, 19:34
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#258
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Key West & Sarasota
Boat: Cal 28 "Happy Days"
Posts: 4,210
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Re: Climate Change
OK, so if sea levels DO rise, should I buy a bigger Manson or Fortress?
__________________
Any fool with a big enough checkbook can BUY a boat; it takes a SPECIAL type of fool to build his own! -Capngeo
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11-08-2013, 19:37
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#259
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,252
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by capngeo
OK, so if sea levels DO rise, should I buy a bigger Manson or Fortress?
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Just more chain.
__________________
CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
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11-08-2013, 19:51
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#260
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Boat: Able 50
Posts: 3,139
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman
Sourcing officially upgraded from Alex Jones to British tabloids. Well, at least he's heading in the right direction.
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One more belittling reply.
" That the best you got George ? "
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11-08-2013, 20:19
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#261
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 958
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Re: Climate Change
For people wanting an interesting perspective on Darwin-ism I'll give you this;
The standard view of evolution is that living things are shaped by cold-hearted competition. And there is no doubt that today's plants and animals carry the genetic legacy of ancestors who fought fiercely to survive and reproduce. But in this hour, we wonder whether there might also be a logic behind sharing, niceness, kindness ... or even, self-sacrifice. Is altruism an aberration, or just an elaborate guise for sneaky self-interest? Do we really live in a selfish, dog-eat-dog world? Or has evolution carved out a hidden code that rewards genuine cooperation?
link to podcast here
The Good Show - Radiolab
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11-08-2013, 20:35
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#262
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 958
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Re: Climate Change
Perhaps for unbiased environmental journalism this site claims
NO ADVERTISING, GOVERNMENT OR CORPORATE FUNDING
Environment
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11-08-2013, 20:56
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#263
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cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 5,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadagirl
Do we really live in a selfish, dog-eat-dog world? Or has evolution carved out a hidden code that rewards genuine cooperation?
link to podcast here
The Good Show - Radiolab
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Or both at the same time? Black and white world is a very western concept
Radio lab is great, ta for link
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11-08-2013, 21:35
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#264
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair
Or both at the same time? Black and white world is a very western concept
Radio lab is great, ta for link
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Right? Listen to the podcast. :-) No such thing as absolute altruism or absolute selfishness. Survival depends on both. But gives me hope that cooperation is a tool that can be utilized.
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11-08-2013, 21:43
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#265
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,904
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadagirl
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I took a look and the site is certainly not without its own biases or agenda. They are quite clear about that if you look at their about us menu
__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
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12-08-2013, 03:50
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#266
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Armchair Bucketeer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,012
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Re: Climate Change
Interesting comments on Humanism .
I see Humanism as a broad church , but my view is that it is less about any belief in the Human spirit or a view that Humans somehow have inherent powers , let alone that "things will turn out ok / progress" as long as we all think happy thoughts ......and more that Humanists accept that it is down to us (humans) to create a better future - and that it can be done. Whether it is achieved is a different thing, as is what "better" actually comprises!
Obviously with the absence of any Sky Fairy(s) and friends (and family? ) to rely upon to do the thinking and / or heavy lifting there is a large degree of Atheism involved for many - but not all, but that is not an inherent part of Humanism. Indeed (just like with Secularism) plenty of folks with religion are also Humanists, whether they know it, accept it or not .
For some of course having no "magic answers" spoon-fed to them is scary , but for others it is all the more exciting and interesting because of having to puzzle solutions out for self and others.
Was an earlier comment(s) about folks being inherently selfish and that this affects the common good.....indeed it does!, but altruism can also have a selfish purpose - and IMO certainly enough to progress a society. Indeed part of the problem in large parts of the West (especially the Anglo Saxon economies) is that whilst folks may not be able to identify or articulate the root causes of the problems they face - nonetheless they inherently know that there is little point in putting into the communal pot because it simply gets emptied immediately rather than growing the pot for the benefit of everyone - and it gets looted by those who write the rules of the game at the top, not those on the bottom getting handouts / scraps from the table (working or not - all the same. Peasants & cannon fodder).
It's about harnessing the power of what humans have and not getting sucked into wishful thinking about what they could become........The future being bright or black is in own mind .
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12-08-2013, 04:45
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#267
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 14,206
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperior
I agree but I don't think the news is good. We, as an intelligent, near precognitive species, can recognize, analyze, and understand the problem but we are unable to "step outside of nature" to save ourselves. We cannot help ourselves. Kind of like a heroin addict recognizing he has a problem.
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On further reflection, and perhaps to add a more useful response, growing research evidence suggests humans are not well adapted to dealing with these kinds of non-focused, large-scale problems. We've evolved to deal with immediate issues, and we do that extremely well. But we fail miserably when faced with large, non-specific threats.
As evidence I'd put forward any number of environmental dilemmas, of which the CO 2 crises is only the latest (but perhaps "greatest"). Some argue the global economic system's performance over the past decades also illustrate the point. We've managed to think our way beyond our evolutionary limitations in the past, so it is possible we may get beyond the current set of crises (of which rapid climate change is only one), but if I were a bettin' man, I'd lay odds against us.
So it's less about being addicted, and more about simple limitations. Lions can't fly airplanes, spiders don't walk on two legs, and perhaps humans can't manage geographically large and disparate problems. It's just the kind of animals we've evolved to be.
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12-08-2013, 04:46
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#268
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 476
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Re: Climate Change
There is no denying that we are burning a lot of fossil fuels around the world, and the pollution doesn't magically disappear.
Now, I am more concerned about other pollution personally, but the impacts on the oceans from excess CO2 and other pollution is a big problem. All of the mercury, SO2, N2O...
Quote:
Greenhouse Gases
Carbon dioxide () is one of the greenhouse gases. It consists of one carbon atom with an oxygen atom bonded to each side. When its atoms are bonded tightly together, the carbon dioxide molecule can absorb infrared radiation and the molecule starts to vibrate. Eventually, the vibrating molecule will emit the radiation again, and it will likely be absorbed by yet another greenhouse gas molecule. This absorption-emission-absorption cycle serves to keep the heat near the surface, effectively insulating the surface from the cold of space.
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Greenhouse Effect: Background Material
Science!
The extra carbon and other air pollution gets carried over to the next year, year after year...
Calculus!
The one issue I have with Climate Science/Research is where the Mauna Loa Observatory is located. It is at 3,400m elevation. Well, doesn't cold (air temperature) CO2 sink in air? How many ppm of CO2 are there at sea level in HI away from volcanoes and vegetation, if it is reading 400ppm way up high?
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12-08-2013, 04:53
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#269
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Sabre 28-2
Posts: 3,197
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadagirl
For people wanting an interesting perspective on Darwin-ism I'll give you this;
The standard view of evolution is that living things are shaped by cold-hearted competition. And there is no doubt that today's plants and animals carry the genetic legacy of ancestors who fought fiercely to survive and reproduce. But in this hour, we wonder whether there might also be a logic behind sharing, niceness, kindness ... or even, self-sacrifice. Is altruism an aberration, or just an elaborate guise for sneaky self-interest? Do we really live in a selfish, dog-eat-dog world? Or has evolution carved out a hidden code that rewards genuine cooperation?
link to podcast here
The Good Show - Radiolab
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Well, like I said, if you read Darwin's Descent of Man, you'll see that he addressed all of these things with great thoroughness and delicacy.
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12-08-2013, 04:57
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#270
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Nearly an old salt
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
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Re: Climate Change
Quote:
So it's less about being addicted, and more about simple limitations. Lions can't fly airplanes, spiders don't walk on two legs, and perhaps humans can't manage geographically large and disparate problems. It's just the kind of animals we've evolved to be.
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Well we better get better at it, given weve created enough of them!
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Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
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