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Old 09-08-2013, 20:31   #106
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by brankin View Post
Twice in one day. Geesh. You might want to look up the scientist quoted in this article, one Henrik Svensmark who is proposing his own pet hypothesis that cosmic rays (from the space far beyond are solar system) are causing global warming. Then you might trying looking up all the other scientists who agree with his hypothesis. Good luck with that!
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Old 09-08-2013, 20:34   #107
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
...But just in case...would it hurt any of us to buy a less polluting car that gets better gas mileage? Car pool once in awhile? Or do a little recycling? Not in the name of climate change but in the spirit of being a better person.
I agree all good things and good to do. I bought a small Honda FIT because it served my needs and was just big enough to fit my 8 foot folding dingy inside. My last car was a 1986 Mazda 323 subcompact that was recycled in 2007 after 20 years. As far a recycling do that too and not just with bottles and cans:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: LORAN LIVES AND A HAPPY EARTH DAY ENDING!
I'd say that most sailors are pretty good when it comes to keeping the environment clean.
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Old 09-08-2013, 20:45   #108
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
.

Then, there are some welcome and some unwelcome consequences of the fact. Like we are supposed to get more hurricanes (somehow this is not the case in any of the seasons past 2005) but on the other hand we can sail the North-West passage in a Bavaria.

b.
Actually, that's not true. NOAA's predictions of above-normal hurricane seasons have fallen pretty much in line with reality. Remember that the activity of the season is marked by the total number and breakdown of storms, not the number that actually make landfall. We tend to think if we don't personally get hit on the head on the East Coast, it was not an active hurricane season, but that's not the metric.

See: Hurricanes and Global Warming FAQs | Center for Climate and Energy Solutions
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Old 09-08-2013, 20:55   #109
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Re: Climate Change

"He's also talking about the arrogance of people preaching from the alter of environmentalism. But, ya know maybe you right about being out of harmony with the nature of things. We meed to get aligned with nature and forget the glib. So what if some of the climate change scientist were fudging things and hiding their initial data from other scientists to check. They are are really doing it for or own good right? Yes back to nature. We need to unshackle our selves from all things manufactured to save our souls. Since you are so concerned and far far ahead on the issue you should go first. Let's start with your computer, followed by your car, and that bicycle is made of metal lot's of CO2 went into making that and about that IPAD and IPOD, cell phone has got to got to go too...."

Hey Capt Mike,, I'm in complete agreement with you. Really. It is exactly that arrogance that is the problem. We are so arrogant in that we think we know, one way or the other. We do know some things for sure. We know that there are no trees on Easter Island. We know that there are island nations being engulfed by sea water. There are a number of towns in Alaska that have had to relocate inland. We on the other side of the conversation have no complete idea what is going on. We do, all of us know that something is afoot. What should we do? Everything we can. Is it necessary that the computer we're using right now be made of plastic? Is a 600 hp Cadillac really a good idea? Do we need an electric toothbrush? And a thousand's of other things. We don't have to give up, pretty much anything. We need to do what we do in a closed loop fashion. I can't dig for gold, not find any and leave the hole to dig another. I gotta fill in the first hole, then go dig another. If I make a tire I have to include the whole life of that tire. It can't end up in a trash heap. It has to be collected and made into new tires. And I do practice what I preach. On any given week I don't consume 26,000 gallons of fresh water by not consuming certain food. In many other way's I adjust my life. Now you need not follow my lead. But you must look at your choices and adjust what you can. And as for your embittered statement about my being, "far far ahead on the issue", nothing I have said or inferred put's me far far ahead of anyone. I'm just looking at what is in front of me/us. Just how FU do things have to get before we pick up our own shovel in our own lives and begin working towards a solution? Our temperament's may be different but the bottom line is pretty much the same. We both like George Carlin! One of
the great educator's.
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Old 09-08-2013, 20:57   #110
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
Ding, ding. Myth #2. "Climate gate" was debunked: PostPartisan - Surprise! 'Climategate' wasn't the scam skeptics claimed
Not really:
ManBearPig, Climategate and Watermelons: A conversation with author James Delingpole - YouTube
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Old 09-08-2013, 21:28   #111
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by toddedger View Post
Newer satellites will soon prove that the changing output of the sun drives climate change. I'm not sure if the guys making their living studying it will let the info out to the public though. Someone might hack their email and spill it, but the question is will anybody pay attention to the science.
I would not be so sure about that.

Quote:
A recent review paper, put together by both solar and climate scientists, details these studies: Solar Influences on Climate. Their bottom line: though the Sun may play some small role, "it is nevertheless much smaller than the estimated radiative forcing due to anthropogenic changes." That is, human activities are the primary factor in global climate change.
http://solar-center.stanford.edu/sun...09RG000282.pdf
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Old 09-08-2013, 21:34   #112
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Re: Climate Change

[QUOTE=Lucky Larry;1306095]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogensailor View Post
It boggles the mind that 90+% of the science community has zero doubt that we are not in a 'normal' cycle. /QUOTE]

Boggling the mind is exactly what the alarmists are trying to do. But even their statistics on how many scientists agree with them are intentionally misleading. Here is my reference: Global Warming Alarmists Caught Doctoring '97-Percent Consensus' Claims - Forbes

I am alarmed but not about climate change. It is ridiculous that Al Gore flys around preaching his alarm then goes home to his 10,000 sq ft house where he spends the million dollar prize he got just keeping the lights on and the air conditioning running.
Good list of denier talking points.

Why the Al Gore fixation? He is a messenger, not the message.

Quote:
He sunk his Nobel winnings into the Alliance for Climate Protection, an organization founded and chaired by Gore that builds grassroots momentum to solve the climate crisis and aims within 10 years to have America generating 100% of its electricity from clean energy sources.

Read more: Al Gore - How Nobel Winners Spend Their Prize Money - TIME #ixzz2bX9Nb1Ke
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Old 09-08-2013, 21:40   #113
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Re: Climate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
Twice in one day. Geesh. You might want to look up the scientist quoted in this article, one Henrik Svensmark who is proposing his own pet hypothesis that cosmic rays (from the space far beyond are solar system) are causing global warming. Then you might trying looking up all the other scientists who agree with his hypothesis. Good luck with that!
Jasper Kirkby at CERN has been testing that hyopthesis and can find no evidence to support it.

Kirkby in his own words from Dec 2012

Quote:
Kirkby: The big warming contribution of mankind is greenhouse gases. At the same time, mankind has been increasing aerosol particle production by emitting various gases into the atmosphere, and these have been cooling the planet. But we don't know how much they've been cooling the planet, because we really don't understand the fundamental science behind how these vapors turn into particles and then grow into the cloud condensation nuclei. So CLOUD will help reduce that uncertainty and really sharpen the scientific basis and understanding of the subject.

Now, the other area where CLOUD will reduce a very big question mark in current climate change is to what extent there can be a natural contribution to the current warming. The current understanding is that natural warming is very, very small. There's a short-term contribution from volcanoes, which only lasts a few years. There's also thought to be a small brightening of the sun over the course of the twentieth century. But apart from that, there's thought to be nothing else going on natural contribution to climate change.
And from a presentation at CERN in Oct 2011

Quote:
Cosmic ray-climate implications
CLOUD observation:
‣ GCR ions enhance nucleation rate by up to a factor 10 for all
conditions investigated so far, provided the nucleation rate lies
below the limit set by the ion-pair production rate
What does this result say about a cosmic ray influence on climate?
✦ At this stage: nothing
✦ It simply leaves open the possibility
Why?
1. We have not yet duplicated the nucleation rates observed in the
boundary layer
2. Freshly-nucleated aerosol particles are far too small to seed cloud
droplets
http://indico.cern.ch/getFile.py/acc...&confId=158340
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Old 09-08-2013, 21:43   #114
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Re: Climate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreep View Post
I'm a PhD dropout in Molecular Genetics. I'm a dropout, because I quickly caught on to the "follow the money" in research.

Please review the attachment. The scientists at the time were actually advocating spreading coal dust on the icecaps, to slow down global cooling.

I'm betting that this is how, 20 years from now, we'll view today's climatologists.
Actually Time and Newsweek, not scientific journals, were touting cooling. Scientists were not.

Quote:
A survey of the scientific literature has found that between 1965 and 1979, 44 scientific papers predicted warming, 20 were neutral and just 7 predicted cooling. So while predictions of cooling got more media attention, the majority of scientists were predicting warming even then.
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Old 09-08-2013, 21:55   #115
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Re: Climate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbianka View Post
"This comment is not driven by intellectual curiosity or inquiry. It is driven by ideology."

Come on it's the same with those talking about "climate change". The climate change proponents have made it like a religion with Al Gore as their Jesus. Not to mention the research lobby of scientists whose career and fortunes depend on "more research" grants and money flowing into their labs and Universities to study global warming er "climate change". They have a vested interest in perpetuating the fear spread by Jesus Gore. Unfortunately, the Michael Mann incident showed how disingenuous some of that research was and put a black mark on the whole "science" of the issue. I agree there is climate change going on. It had been going on for a long time on this planet and will be going for a long time after we are gone.
I have never read anything that AL Gore wrote on climate change, which btw which was the baby of a GOP strategist named Frank Luntz.

Quote:
The US Republican party is changing tactics on the environment, avoiding "frightening" phrases such as global warming, after a confidential party memo warned that it is the domestic issue on which George Bush is most vulnerable.

The memo, by the leading Republican consultant Frank Luntz, concedes the party has "lost the environmental communications battle" and urges its politicians to encourage the public in the view that there is no scientific consensus on the dangers of greenhouse gases.

"The scientific debate is closing [against us] but not yet closed. There is still a window of opportunity to challenge the science," Mr Luntz writes in the memo, obtained by the Environmental Working Group, a Washington-based campaigning organisation.

"Voters believe that there is no consensus about global warming within the scientific community. Should the public come to believe that the scientific issues are settled, their views about global warming will change accordingly.

"Therefore, you need to continue to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate."

The phrase "global warming" should be abandoned in favour of "climate change", Mr Luntz says, and the party should describe its policies as "conservationist" instead of "environmentalist", because "most people" think environmentalists are "extremists" who indulge in "some pretty bizarre behaviour... that turns off many voters".

BTW - the IPCC has been around since 1998. Carwe to guess what the "CC" stands for?

Michael Mann's research has been vindicated verified.

Climate myths: The 'hockey stick' graph has been proven wrong - environment - 16 May 2007 - New Scientist

If you wish to follow the money take a look at the funding received by Heartland and its cronies. And is it any surprise that the largest donor to James Inhofe is the oil and gas industry?
James M. Inhofe: Campaign Finance/Money - Summary - Senator 2014 | OpenSecrets
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Old 09-08-2013, 22:05   #116
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Re: Climate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by capngeo View Post

Then again some sites suggest that a single volcano can blast out more CO2 than all of mankind... when others say bunk to that.

The USGS says bunk.

Quote:
Do the Earth’s volcanoes emit more CO2 than human activities? Research findings indicate that the answer to this frequently asked question is a clear and unequivocal, “No.” Human activities, responsible for a projected 35 billion metric tons (gigatons) of CO2 emissions in 2010 (Friedlingstein et al., 2010), release an amount of CO2 that dwarfs the annual CO2 emissions of all the world’s degassing subaerial and submarine volcanoes (Gerlach, 2011).

The published estimates of the global CO2 emission rate for all degassing subaerial (on land) and submarine volcanoes lie in a range from 0.13 gigaton to 0.44 gigaton per year (Gerlach, 1991; Varekamp et al., 1992; Allard, 1992; Sano and Williams, 1996; Marty and Tolstikhin, 1998). The preferred global estimates of the authors of these studies range from about 0.15 to 0.26 gigaton per year. The 35-gigaton projected anthropogenic CO2 emission for 2010 is about 80 to 270 times larger than the respective maximum and minimum annual global volcanic CO2 emission estimates. It is 135 times larger than the highest preferred global volcanic CO2 estimate of 0.26 gigaton per year (Marty and Tolstikhin, 1998).
Volcanic Gases and Climate Change Overview

BTW -the net forcing of volcanic action is negative. It lowers temperatures.
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Old 09-08-2013, 22:15   #117
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Re: Climate Change

So the impact of sailing:

More extreme weather
Higher sea levels affecting chart datum
Ocean acidification affecting sea life
Migration of sea life at 4.4 miles annum
Longer sailing season toward the poles

Anything else?
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Old 09-08-2013, 22:59   #118
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Re: Climate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogensailor View Post
"He's also talking about the arrogance of people preaching from the alter of environmentalism. But, ya know maybe you right about being out of harmony with the nature of things. We meed to get aligned with nature and forget the glib. So what if some of the climate change scientist were fudging things and hiding their initial data from other scientists to check. They are are really doing it for or own good right? Yes back to nature. We need to unshackle our selves from all things manufactured to save our souls. Since you are so concerned and far far ahead on the issue you should go first. Let's start with your computer, followed by your car, and that bicycle is made of metal lot's of CO2 went into making that and about that IPAD and IPOD, cell phone has got to got to go too...."

Hey Capt Mike,, I'm in complete agreement with you. Really. It is exactly that arrogance that is the problem. We are so arrogant in that we think we know, one way or the other. We do know some things for sure. We know that there are no trees on Easter Island. We know that there are island nations being engulfed by sea water. There are a number of towns in Alaska that have had to relocate inland. We on the other side of the conversation have no complete idea what is going on. We do, all of us know that something is afoot. What should we do? Everything we can. Is it necessary that the computer we're using right now be made of plastic? Is a 600 hp Cadillac really a good idea? Do we need an electric toothbrush? And a thousand's of other things. We don't have to give up, pretty much anything. We need to do what we do in a closed loop fashion. I can't dig for gold, not find any and leave the hole to dig another. I gotta fill in the first hole, then go dig another. If I make a tire I have to include the whole life of that tire. It can't end up in a trash heap. It has to be collected and made into new tires. And I do practice what I preach. On any given week I don't consume 26,000 gallons of fresh water by not consuming certain food. In many other way's I adjust my life. Now you need not follow my lead. But you must look at your choices and adjust what you can. And as for your embittered statement about my being, "far far ahead on the issue", nothing I have said or inferred put's me far far ahead of anyone. I'm just looking at what is in front of me/us. Just how FU do things have to get before we pick up our own shovel in our own lives and begin working towards a solution? Our temperament's may be different but the bottom line is pretty much the same. We both like George Carlin! One of
the great educator's.
Ya...I know...isn't that the way of the human condition. All one way or all the other. There are a lot of great ideas in the works to reduce global emissions. We just can't throw our hands in the air and say if we can't get rid of pollution, then we should be comfortable with more pollution.
When it come to character building or comfort, often character building is lost in the dust racing towards comfort. I would ask the climate nay sayers to just for one moment look at their children and grand-kids and consider what kind of world we will leave them.
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Old 09-08-2013, 23:00   #119
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
So the impact of sailing:

More extreme weather
Higher sea levels affecting chart datum
Ocean acidification affecting sea life
Migration of sea life at 4.4 miles annum
Longer sailing season toward the poles

Anything else?
That's ok...it will only effect the Hunters...
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Old 10-08-2013, 00:28   #120
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The earth enjoys dynamic meta stable equilibriums. And yes, scientists do disagree. We don't take the disagreement too personal. All part of the process.

Is the climate changing, yes. However, climate models are problematic as we do not understand the reaction of natural feedback mechanisms. Learning but not there yet.

Anybody who suggests they understand climate change doesn't know how little we understand. Those with the answers tend to be "social scientists", politicians, grant writers, or laymen.
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