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Old 09-08-2013, 13:00   #76
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by sneuman
So, which is it?! Either a) it's happening and we didn't do it or b) it is happening and we did do it. Take your pick, there is no third option!

George and I choose A!
George Carlin on Global Warming - YouTube
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If you imagine that George is in alignment with your view, your dreaming. What the man is saying is that the earth is a closed loop system. And we will perish if we don't return to the closed loop system that was human existence for the past couple hundred K years. We are out of touch with reality. We are out of harmony with the natural order of life. Sounds like a lot of hippy horse manure right? Doesn't mean it ain't the truth. Whats simple is generally true. Okums Razor. Like the man said, 'it doesn't care which side of the argument you fall on' get in step, realign, or perish. Period. Don't **** wher you eat. Don't set your house on fire in order to stay warm. Don't spend every dime you/we have on absurd misadventures to no end whatsoever and then bitch about the economy. Get aligned. for every action there is an equal reaction. Set everything on fire and you get smoke, too much smoke you get hydrocarbon haze too, much haze,,,well one can hope that you get it. Close the loop. Rejoin the club. Fit the requirement's or get terminated. It's my hunch that those who get the truism that, 'chance favors the prepared mind', are gonna get to hang around way longer than the unprepared. But then glibness is an option. As is denial.
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Old 09-08-2013, 13:07   #77
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
I think you may have misunderstood what happens in those threads (maybe read them all again?)......

.....for those who have not read them all, what happens is that after a dozen or so pages I sacrifice another goat ..............that both solves Climate Change for a little while and ensures the sun comes up in the morning (dual use technology )........and therefore the thread can be (safely) closed as a cure no longer needed .

How else do you think we are not all by now under the predicted 20 metres of water whilst sitting in a desert? By chance? or from praying to Al Gore .........it's only because some of us have really put some effort into stopping Climate Change - especially the Goat .

And yes, I am a Scientist. A Goatologist .
Big time disappointment.
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Old 09-08-2013, 13:25   #78
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Re: Climate Change

"Arctic sea ice has shrunk to its smallest extent on record in recent years, which has already opened up a seasonal northern route over Canada. Last year, a solo sailor in a 27-foot fiberglass boat was one of 18 private yachts to make the voyage."

Study Finds Climate Change To Open Arctic Sea Routes By 2050 : The Two-Way : NPR
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Old 09-08-2013, 13:59   #79
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Re: Climate Change

Well, despite the best efforts of Goatology, the science of indicates that apparently the incorrect sacrifices have been made. Perhaps the wrong goat?
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Old 09-08-2013, 14:03   #80
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper View Post
Well, despite the best efforts of Goatology, the science of indicates that apparently the incorrect sacrifices have been made. Perhaps the wrong goat?
It's only one Goat at a time - WTF do you expect?? a permanent cure? , It's not as if they grow on trees.......be grateful for a temporary fix.
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Old 09-08-2013, 14:28   #81
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
It's only one Goat at a time - WTF do you expect?? a permanent cure? , It's not as if they grow on trees.......be grateful for a temporary fix.
Pfft... get to work!

GOATS STANDING IN TREES ZOMG
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Old 09-08-2013, 14:45   #82
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
It's only one Goat at a time - WTF do you expect?? a permanent cure? , It's not as if they grow on trees.......be grateful for a temporary fix.

What happens to the goats after? If is a roasting you better be using a renewable energy source and not that smoke making wood/charcoal global warming stuff!
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Old 09-08-2013, 14:58   #83
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Re: Climate Change

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Big time disappointment.
Especially if you are from Jersey, where men are men and goats are nervous.
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Old 09-08-2013, 15:39   #84
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
For those who discuss in depth that climate has cooled and climate has warmed before, you are correct.

However, this is the first time that CO2 levels in the atmosphere has risen BEFORE global temperatures have, not AFTERWARDS.

All the ranting against individuals involved in the debate does not change the science.

How we address man's impact is a different debate. The science still does not change.
Apparently there has been debate in the past whether in the past increased levels of CO2 caused a warming climate, or whether a warming climate caused increased levels of CO2? The current understanding appears to be BOTH. Historically, the ice ages were first broken by a change in the natural earth-sun orbital cycles, resulting in an increase in solar radiation to the earth, but then CO2 levels rapidly increased, driving the temperature increase. That's why the current levels of CO2 are such a concern.


CO2 lags temperature - what does it mean?
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When the Earth comes out of an ice age, the warming is not initiated by CO2 but by changes in the Earth's orbit. The warming causes the oceans to release CO2. The CO2 amplifies the warming and mixes through the atmosphere, spreading warming throughout the planet. So CO2 causes warming AND rising temperature causes CO2 rise. Overall, about 90% of the global warming occurs after the CO2 increase.

Over the last half million years, our climate has experienced long ice ages regularly punctuated by brief warm periods called interglacials. Atmospheric carbon dioxide closely matches the cycle, increasing by around 80 to 100 parts per million as Antarctic temperatures warm up to 10°C. However, when you look closer, CO2 actually lags Antarctic temperature changes by around 1,000 years. While this result was predicted two decades ago (Lorius 1990), it still surprises and confuses many. Does warming cause CO2 rise or the other way around? In actuality, the answer is both.


Figure 1: Vostok Antarctic ice core records for carbon dioxide concentration (Petit 2000) and temperature change (Barnola 2003).

Interglacials come along approximately every 100,000 years. This is called the Milankovitch cycle, brought on by changes in the Earth's orbit. There are three main changes to the earth's orbit. The shape of the Earth's orbit around the sun (eccentricity) varies between an ellipse to a more circular shape. The earth's axis is tilted relative to the sun at around 23°. This tilt oscillates between 22.5° and 24.5° (oblithis quity). As the earth spins around it's axis, the axis wobbles from pointing towards the North Star to pointing at the star Vega (precession).


Figure 2: The three main orbital variations. Eccentricity: changes in the shape of the Earth’s orbit.Obliquity: changes in the tilt of the Earth’s rotational axis. Precession: wobbles in the Earth’s rotational axis.

The combined effect of these orbital cycles causes long term changes in the amount of sunlight hitting the earth at different seasons, particularly at high latitudes. For example, the orbital cycles triggered warming at high latitutdes approximately 19,000 years ago, causing large amounts of ice to melt, flooding the oceans with fresh water. This influx of fresh water then disrupted the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC), in turn causing a seesawing of heat between the hemispheres (Shakun 2012). The Southern Hemisphere and its oceans warmed first, starting about 18,000 years ago. As the Southern Ocean warms, the solubility of CO2 in water falls (Martin 2005). This causes the oceans to give up more CO2, emitting it into the atmosphere. The exact mechanism of how the deep ocean gives up its CO2 is not fully understood but believed to be related to vertical ocean mixing (Toggweiler 1999).

The outgassing of CO2 from the ocean has several effects. The increased CO2 in the atmosphere amplifies the original warming. The relatively weak forcing from Milankovitch cycles is insufficient to cause the dramatic temperature change taking our climate out of an ice age (this period is called a deglaciation). However, the amplifying effect of CO2 is consistent with the observed warming.

CO2 from the Southern Ocean also mixes through the atmosphere, spreading the warming north (Cuffey 2001). Tropical marine sediments record warming in the tropics around 1000 years after Antarctic warming, around the same time as the CO2 rise (Stott 2007). Ice cores in Greenland find that warming in the Northern Hemisphere lags the Antarctic CO2 rise (Caillon 2003).

To claim that the CO2 lag disproves the warming effect of CO2 displays a lack of understanding of the processes that drive Milankovitch cycles. A review of the peer reviewed research into past periods of deglaciation tells us several things:
  • Deglaciation is not initiated by CO2 but by orbital cycles
  • CO2 amplifies the warming which cannot be explained by orbital cycles alone
  • CO2 spreads warming throughout the planet

Overall, more than 90% of the glacial-interglacial warming occurs after the atmospheric CO2 increase (Figure 3).


Figure 3: The global proxy temperature stack (blue) as deviations from the early Holocene (11.5–6.5 kyr ago) mean, an Antarctic ice-core composite temperature record (red), and atmospheric CO2 concentration (yellow dots). The Holocene, Younger Dryas (YD), Bølling–Allerød (B–A), Oldest Dryas (OD) and Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) intervals are indicated. Error bars, 1-sigma; p.p.m.v. = parts per million by volume. Shakun et al. Figure 2a.
Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide levels haven't been as high as they currently are in hundreds of thousands of years!

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Old 09-08-2013, 15:45   #85
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Re: Climate Change

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What happens to the goats after? If is a roasting you better be using a renewable energy source and not that smoke making wood/charcoal global warming stuff!
No roasting involved.

and no second banana either .

Sex Afloat . . . Give it to Me !
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Old 09-08-2013, 16:01   #86
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Re: Climate Change

You didnt roast the goat? How would you feel if you were a weather god and some fool tossed you a bloody dead goat? You've screwed us all!

Also: we are all now on PETA's secret hitlist
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Old 09-08-2013, 16:03   #87
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Re: Climate Change

i remember days loooong ago way before even computers were invented....there were scientists when i was in 4th grade in 1950s saying that there would be more water on face of earth by 2025.
a few years ago that was confirmed that this phenomenon was allegedly on time.
i am looking forward to this, as it is main reason over my lifetime that i bought a boat. especially a cruise kind of boat. i am ready...bring it on.
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Old 09-08-2013, 17:03   #88
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Re: Climate Change

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This is simple, on one side there is heresay, conspiracy theory and politically driven babble. On the other side is a near-consensus among folks who've actually looked at the data.

Whether you care to be concerned about the "problem" (or to believe it is a problem at all) is entirely up to you. But the fact that the climate is changing is NOT in dispute.
+1, or is it -1? I agree tha the EOTW/global warming crowd = heresay, conspiracy theory and politically driven babble. And the consensus is it gets warmer, then colder over hundreds of years regardless of what we humans do.

I agree with what the comedian Ron White told his whacko brother in law when he was spouting all the global warming and how the cattle ranchers in Texas were at fault for raising all the cattle which were creating methane gas, and what was he doing to support fixing the problem. He replied, I'm eating them as fast as I can.
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Old 09-08-2013, 17:59   #89
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
Apparently there has been debate in the past whether in the past increased levels of CO2 caused a warming climate, or whether a warming climate caused increased levels of CO2? The current understanding appears to be BOTH. Historically, the ice ages were first broken by a change in the natural earth-sun orbital cycles, resulting in an increase in solar radiation to the earth, but then CO2 levels rapidly increased, driving the temperature increase. That's why the current levels of CO2 are such a concern.


CO2 lags temperature - what does it mean?


Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide levels haven't been as high as they currently are in hundreds of thousands of years!

Guess it depends on whose data you look at....... according to THIS we are at a very low level of CO2 at the moment...

Then again some sites suggest that a single volcano can blast out more CO2 than all of mankind... when others say bunk to that.

The whole issue is a scam! How arrogant to think the we (humans) have power over the Earth... In fact, I'd bet there is a damn good chance that there were prior "human" civilizations that rose and then fell when Mother Earth shook them off... or you could believe that pyramids were built with oxcarts. Regardless, I won't be around to see it either way. So let me turn up the Air Conditioning, book a cruise on a coal fired ship, fly home on a jet, and buy an SUV...
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Old 09-08-2013, 18:40   #90
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Guess it depends on whose data you look at....... according to THIS we are at a very low level of CO2 at the moment...

Then again some sites suggest that a single volcano can blast out more CO2 than all of mankind... when others say bunk to that.

The whole issue is a scam! How arrogant to think the we (humans) have power over the Earth... In fact, I'd bet there is a damn good chance that there were prior "human" civilizations that rose and then fell when Mother Earth shook them off... or you could believe that pyramids were built with oxcarts. Regardless, I won't be around to see it either way. So let me turn up the Air Conditioning, book a cruise on a coal fired ship, fly home on a jet, and buy an SUV...
Its very unfortunate there are attitudes like this , pollution is pollution , irrespective of anything to do with climate change. Te planet isn't here for humans to crap all over it.


"The whole issue is a scam! How arrogant to think the we (humans) have power over the Earth"

Sadly we do. We have fished out its seas , torn down its forests , polluted its waterways. Anyway who has sailed can see the damage done.

We are truely our own locusts.

To say the issue is a scam, is to dismiss , millions of man hours of dedicated scientific work, simply because you beleive your lifestyle might be affected , really ...

Dave
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