Climate Change

[Therapy]

anybody know about this?

Man invents machine to convert plastic into oil - YouTube

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by jackdale

I think you had better provide some evidence that IPCC and Mann falsifies data.

This how Mann responds to being smeared.

Michael Mann v. National Review et al. defamation lawsuit – new Plaintiff’s briefs | Climate Science Watch

Michael Mann has acknowledged leaving out the warm Middle Ages period in preparing his now notorious hockey stick graph. He also says he lost his notes so he can't explain why the data was excluded. Regardless of the wrist slap he received from Academic review, he falsified his dataset to produce the desired result - not uncommon with AGW supporters.

You can Google if you actually want the information on the UN IPCC. They also have acknowledged including bogus data on glacial melts that they now say they have no idea how it happened.

Regarding Mann's lawsuit against National Review, as I recall it is because of his false claim to have received a Nobel Prize, which he did not. Apparently he was affronted by the Review's ridiculing this claim, since removed from his online resume, I believe.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Therapy

anybody know about this?

Man invents machine to convert plastic into oil - YouTube

I just built a rocket stove (pyrolysis stove) w/recovery and plan on building 7 more soon..I have 840 tons of 120 yr old Long leaf heart pine waste(demolished textile mill) and plan on creating bio-char and by products such as crude and syngases

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Milkanovitch cycles have been correlated very well to temperature, but right now we should be cooling as a result of those cycles.

Incorrect. You've got it bass ackwards, again.

Milankovitch Cycles — OSS Foundation

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Wrong

Doing nothing is imprudent.

Unless the something you want to do has no effect on anything, and costs a tremendous amount of money. A.K.A. efforts to curb CO2 to reduce global warming.

Under those circumstances, doing nothing is very prudent.

[Gadagirl]

http://healthcenter.ncsu.edu/counsel...ional-beliefs/

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Incorrect. You've got it bass ackwards, again.

Milankovitch Cycles — OSS Foundation

Delfin, did you read the link you referenced?

Let me quote from the conclusion.

The natural cycle is range bound and well understood, largely constrained by the Milankovitch cycles. Since the beginning of the industrial age, humankind has caused such a dramatic departure from the natural cycle, that it is hard to imagine anyone thinking that we are still in the natural cycle.

And finally it ends with:

This departure is so dramatic that it has instigated a new ert and entered the Anthropocene. Simply put, based on the evidence, mankind has forced the Earth climate system to depart from it's natural cycle forcing.

This is from the link YOU provided. Are you saying now you agree with your link's conclusions?

[Capt Phil]

First time I've checked this thread since about post #500... glad to see it is till going strong and wondering how many BTU's have been burned up in pontificating and posting unbelievably complex scientific data to make a point that has been worn to death. i'll check back at post #1500... cheers, phil

[hpeer]

Gentlemen,

I suggest that we move on with this thread. There is far too much here that the majority agree on to allow ourselves to be derailed by deniers.

Think of it this way.....much good comment has been made on both sides about humanities ability to control themselves and mould our future. Let us bend together here to keep the topic more to that which we know to be factual thus demonstrating our ability to effect change.

In the short term GW ha done much to open the Arctic, though it is still far from hospitable. Even this year it appears the path has not yet opened.

But short of doing an Arctic crossing, GW has opened vast cruising areas to those who choose to visit. The Straits of Belle Isle are open 6 - 8 weeks earlier than a century ago. One can cruise the Quebec coast, through hundreds of miles with no roads and few settlements, up through the Strait, past Bell Isle, and into the Tourngat park system. It now takes no great boat to do it, but it does require a crew and heat.

These are great places I have not fully explored myself. Yet they are available to the entire East coast.

On another more somber note, I fear GW will, working in cooperation with other factors, create great strife for us all. One never knows how the things will play out, but much could be said concerning the wisdom of living near large urban areas. Because of the uncertainty I find a boat a wise investment that preserves flexibility of action. Go North? Go South? Both re open.

There is plenty here to discuss concerning GW without getting drug into mindless to and fro where you are drug down to a mean level and beaten with experience.

Shall we raise the bar of discussion, please!

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

... glad to see it is till going strong and wondering how many BTU's have been burned up in pontificating and posting unbelievably complex scientific data to make a point that has been worn to death

Hi. Miss me?

Our little boat is currently tied to the dock of a delightful riverside inn, with pathetically slow wifi.

Capt P, don't stay up late worrying about the energy consumed by internet views. This whole thread and all its views have probably consumed less energy than an ex-pro-athlete's oversized powerboat going from Toledo to Put-In Bay for drinks and dinner. Plus, your web ads are getting seen. Stop complaining.

The point is not done to death, the lunatics still control the asylum. Until our best science can displace PR bull$#1t in the public's regard, we're not done.

Back soon.

[Gadagirl]

Ok, try again. Prblems posting. This is what I meant to convey.

http://healthcenter.ncsu.edu/counsel...ional-beliefs/

Good for all of our introspection but hoping all that hold stubbornly, ignorantly to their beliefs actually take a look at this.

My eyes have been very much opened, thoughts expanded, personal beliefs modified by this thread and education inspired by this thread. Kinda smoothes out my edges. ;-)

I'm so not even as intelligent or educated as many of the posters on this thread. Thankfully I'm not as ignorant either.

We'll be lucky if in 30 years time we can enlighten the truly ignorant. We have always had to deal with the weakest link.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Michael Mann has acknowledged leaving out the warm Middle Ages period in preparing his now notorious hockey stick graph. He also says he lost his notes so he can't explain why the data was excluded. Regardless of the wrist slap he received from Academic review, he falsified his dataset to produce the desired result - not uncommon with AGW supporters.

Still doing some checking, but if I recall correctly the hockey stick is global. The MWP was localized. Can you point me to something that supports your contention. Telling me to "google it" is intellectually lazy, especially if you know where the information is.

You can Google if you actually want the information on the UN IPCC. They also have acknowledged including bogus data on glacial melts that they now say they have no idea how it happened.

You could google it too,. they know how it happened.

It has, however, recently come to our attention that a paragraph in the 938-page Working Group II
contribution to the underlying assessment2 refers to poorly substantiated estimates of rate of
recession and date for the disappearance of Himalayan glaciers. In drafting the paragraph in
question, the clear and well-established standards of evidence, required by the IPCC procedures,
were not applied properly.
The Chair, Vice-Chairs, and Co-chairs of the IPCC regret the poor application of well-established
IPCC procedures in this instance. This episode demonstrates that the quality of the assessment
depends on absolute adherence to the IPCC standards, including thorough review of “the quality
and validity of each source before incorporating results from the source into an IPCC Report” 3. We
reaffirm our strong commitment to ensuring this level of performance.

Regarding Mann's lawsuit against National Review, as I recall it is because of his false claim to have received a Nobel Prize, which he did not. Apparently he was affronted by the Review's ridiculing this claim, since removed from his online resume, I believe.

Mark Steyn and Rand Simberg made a rather disgusting comparison of Penn State staff. How would you like to be be put in the situation?

Two groups, the far-right National Review Online and the Competitive Enterprise Institute, have made this personal indeed. In a frankly disgusting article by Mark Steyn, the NRO accused Mann of academic fraud. It even compares him to the ex-Penn State University coach Jerry Sandusky, a convicted serial child molester. Steyn got this comparison from an article by Rand Simberg in the CEI’s blog, who called Mann “the Jerry Sandusky of climate science … [who] molested and tortured data.”

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Unless the something you want to do has no effect on anything, and costs a tremendous amount of money. A.K.A. efforts to curb CO2 to reduce global warming.

Under those circumstances, doing nothing is very prudent.

So is doing nothing about cigarette smoking. The science on that is not settled either. I used to smoke but I do not have lung cancer. Of course, my mother smoked all of her adult life and died of lung cancer.

Lots of farmers livelihood depend on that crop, as do the worker and management at cigarette manufacturers. Then there is the government revenue from taxes.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by avb3

Delfin, did you read the link you referenced?



This is from the link YOU provided. Are you saying now you agree with your link's conclusions?

Sigh. I was responding to this:

Originally Posted by jackdale

Milkanovitch cycles have been correlated very well to temperature, but right now we should be cooling as a result of those cycles.

As the link I provided shows, we are not, as jackdale stated, in a place within a Milkanovitch cycle where we would be expecting cooling, but rather warming. From the link:

"When those factors bring us closer to the sun long enough, and at an optimal angle for increased heating on earth, the ice melts quickly, the sea level rises about 400 feet, and we enjoy a warm period 'like' the one we are in now. That is the natural cycle, brief warm periods followed by an ice age about every 100 thousand years."

In other words, we are currently in the warming period between cooler cycles, which isn't hard to figure out since we have been warming consistently since the beginning of the 18th century. I merely used an AGW friendly source to point out that jack had it backwards. Again.

And no, since there is little evidence that the 4% human contribution to annual CO2 outgassing is causing warming, I don't find their conclusion without evidence convincing that the additional warming we are experiencing (or at least did prior to 1996) is due to human activity.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by jackdale

So is doing nothing about cigarette smoking. The science on that is not settled either. I used to smoke but I do not have lung cancer. Of course, my mother smoked all of her adult life and died of lung cancer.

Lots of farmers livelihood depend on that crop, as do the worker and management at cigarette manufacturers. Then there is the government revenue from taxes.

The science on inhaled smoke being carcinogenic has been settled for around 40 years.

If the science behind AGW was as sound, we wouldn't be having this discussion.