Climate Change

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

So, are you also not in favour of subsidies/low royalties/tax breaks to the fossil-fuel sector? How are you on spending $1 T or more on two wars? Wall St bailout?

You'd think that a few $B to kickstart a new energy sector isn't that terrible a use of public money, by comparison.

[edit - thanks for recopying WSJ article. You do know that the Heartland Institute is a barely-concealed shill for the fossil-fuel industry, right? ]

A few billion here, a few billion there and pretty soon you have a whole lot of money... Senator Dirken's reported quote.

Another from who knows---- The road to Hell was paved with good intentions.

Look, STOP THE DAMNED SPENDING!!! There will ALWAYS be an outcry from some organization who feels money is needed. LEARN TO SAY NO!!!!

And as to the prices of oil when the costs for armed forces gets included, REDUCE THE ARMED FORCES AND GET THEM OUT OF EUROPE!!! It is time to worry about things back home!

[Krogensailor]

To say that wind, and alternative energy in general is too expensive and not cost effective is a silly and short sighted argument. Of course its expensive, now. Five years ago a Tesla motors electric car cost over $100k. http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/def..._pbsb.pngToday your can pick one up for 65k. In another five years it will be half that. The Volt will be half that again. They want to install wind turbines 20 miles offshore in Delaware, same complaint. If you stand on the beach and your eyesight is 20/20 one can just see the tips on the rotors. Ridiculous. It's dishonest and disingenuous to offer as an arguement such nonsense put forth by such lopsided and corrupted sources, and then blame the other side for having an agenda. Nothing personal but your argument lack credibility.

[Krogensailor]

Why only Europe? Seems to me the money hole is the middle east. Cut the defense budget in half and solve a huge part of our money woes.

[Mike OReilly]

Setting aside the US government's fiscal problems, the notion that so called alternative energy sources are too expensive is a silly argument. The cost is what the cost is. Simply put, if we want our energy-intense lifestyles to continue, then we must pay the price. If the price is too high, then stop using so much energy.

Fossil fuels will continue to rise in financial cost as we turn to ever more expensive sources (such as the Canadian oil sands). By removing the massive subsidy the fossil fuel industry receives, and diverting that money to alternatives, we could make wind and solar real players in the energy matrix.

All that said, the research I've seen indicates that wind and solar cannot meet our current global energy uses. The problem is energy density. These sources are relatively low-density producers (and they are not without their own environmental impacts as well). The only current energy source that matches fossil fuel is nuclear. Unfortunately, thanks to a misguided environmental movement, and consumers who refuse to pay the real price of the energy they use, we've been reducing our usage of this source, just when we should be increasing.

To be clear, I think it is essential that we greatly expand our use of solar, wind, tidal, geothermal and other biomass sources. At the same time we need to greatly reduce our usage of fossil energy, saving it for large transportation services (ships, trains, etc.), and perhaps more importantly, plastics.

... or, we could chose to use less. But this seems to be the one thing we in the rich nations absolutely refuse to do.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Krogensailor

Why only Europe? Seems to me the money hole is the middle east. Cut the defense budget in half and solve a huge part of our money woes.

Yup , or send the bill to the Oil Companies (so they can add it to the price of gas - transparency ) - don't need a dozen(?) aircraft carriers to defend solar in the Desert.........if you build them in the USA . Plus you get US jobs to maintain. Same for wind. Won't be a simple magic cure, but life ain't like that..........

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by Krogensailor

Why only Europe? Seems to me the money hole is the middle east. Cut the defense budget in half and solve a huge part of our money woes.

I was in a hurry to go someplace. In my rush I neglected to be thorough. I firmly believe that its time for USA to come in from the cold. Every off shore base should be considered for closing. Start anywhere you chose, Japan, Korea, all of Europe, all bases on the African continent. Let those governments who love us not spend huge amounts at defending them selves.

And as far as oil imports go, open up US government land for drilling. Purchase oil from our neighbors, Canada (remember the pipe line, Obama's pipe line to nowhere??) & Mexico. Might as well become a big supporter of Mexico before all their residents jump over the river.

CUT SPENDING, WE NEED AN AUSTERITY PROGRAM!!!!

[boatman61]

I'm for alternative energy like solar/wind/wave because in the long run its cheaper and kinder to the planet.. and us.. than incidents like Chernobyl and things like this... how much for your Pacific Paradise now......


Japan’s nuclear watchdog has now declared the leak of radioactive water from Fukushima a “state of emergency.” Each day, 300 tons of radioactive water seeps into the ocean, and it’s now clear that TEPCO has engage in a two-and-a-half-year cover-up of immense magnitude.

“I believe it’s been leaking into the ocean from the start of the crisis two-and-a-half years ago,” disclosed a 12-year TEPCO veteran named Suzuki-san (SOURCE)

“There are still reactor buildings we haven’t gotten into yet,” said another worker named Fujimoto-san. “So there’s always the possibility of another explosion…”

TEPCO workers sprayed with wildly radioactive water while waiting for a bus Just how out of control is the situation at Fukushima? It’s so out of control that TEPCO recently had to admit 10 of its workers were somehow — yeah, see if you can figure this out — sprayed with highly radioactive water while waiting for a bus.

“The workers’ exposure above the neck was found to be as much as 10 becquerels per square centimeter,” reports Bloomberg.com

How exactly did highly radioactive water manage to find its way to a bus stop in the first place? TEPCO isn’t sure. It’s confusing with all those radiation alarms going off all the time. In order to concentrate, the company has found it’s easier to just disable all the alarms and pretend nothing’s wrong.

The TEPCO cover-up

To fully grasp the extent of the TEPCO denial, realize that only recently did the company finally admit that radioactive groundwater has been leaking into the ocean. This follows years of stark denials from the company, whose executes have exhibited a remarkable ability to deny reality even when their own workers are dying in droves from cancer.

It’s no exaggeration to say that TEPCO’s downplaying of the full extent of the Fukushima disaster has put tens of millions of lives at risk — people who should have been warned about radiation but were denied that information due to the TEPCO cover-up.

“At this current time in July of 2013, Fukushima is 80 to 100x more expansive and more intense — letting out about 100x more of the radiation of Chernobyl,” reports Dr. Simon Atkins Phoenix Rising Radio on a BlogTalkRadio interview.

“The problem with Fukushima is that it’s not only continuing for 865 days… I mean, let’s wrap our minds around that for a second — it has been leaking out radiation in increasing volumes for 865 days.”

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by Krogensailor

To say that wind, and alternative energy in general is too expensive and not cost effective is a silly and short sighted argument. Of course its expensive, now. Five years ago a Tesla motors electric car cost over $100k. http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/def..._pbsb.pngToday your can pick one up for 65k. In another five years it will be half that. The Volt will be half that again.

You're dreaming! Five years from now Telsa electric will be bankrupt. GMC will no longer be manufacturing cars nobody will purchase.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by foggysail

You're dreaming! Five years from now Telsa electric will be bankrupt. GMC will no longer be manufacturing cars nobody will purchase.

I am gonna book-mark this post - see you in 5 years .

Two city buses in South Korea are running on electricity supplied by the road they run on - NY Daily News

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I am gonna book-mark this post - see you in 5 years .

Two city buses in South Korea are running on electricity supplied by the road they run on - NY Daily News

OK

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

...
We are now up to 430+ posts with folks venting like mad, throwing up studies, statistics and quotes from learned papers on each side of the controversy. Can't we get back to talking about boats?? Where are you when we need you, Moderators? Phil

You sound like me... when the CC topic was plopped into one of the actual sailing sub-forums. . This is the Off-topic area, it's apparently Ok here. So, game on! (though it's slowing down. we bore so easily...)

oh and one small correction: There are NO learned papers on the denier side, at least as far as I'm aware, and if there are, they certainly haven't found their way into this thread yet.

[avb3]

Let's get back on topic and stay away from the political diatribes. Certain posts have been removed. And please, no religion either.

[Capt Phil]

Thanks, Lake-Effect... you gave me my laugh for the day! 'No learned papers' really cracked me! Cheers, Phil

[Capt Phil]

God is going to get you for that, avb3... cheers, Phil

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

God is going to get you for that, avb3... cheers, Phil

I've been told that before