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Old 11-08-2013, 20:24   #256
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Re: Climate Change

Even the well-known AGW denier Roy Spencer shows a continued temperature increase.



The use of 1998 as starting point for temperatures by a sailor in particular is distributing cherry picking. It was an especially strong El Nino year. Sailors should be more cognizant of the activities of the oceans.

I think we should use 1993 as a starting point, Pinatubo and all. Better yet 1985.
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Old 11-08-2013, 20:26   #257
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
Sourcing officially upgraded from Alex Jones to British tabloids. Well, at least he's heading in the right direction.
Soon he might discover Google Scholar (Google Scholar) and real science.
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Old 11-08-2013, 20:34   #258
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Re: Climate Change

OK, so if sea levels DO rise, should I buy a bigger Manson or Fortress?
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Old 11-08-2013, 20:37   #259
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Re: Climate Change

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OK, so if sea levels DO rise, should I buy a bigger Manson or Fortress?
Just more chain.
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Old 11-08-2013, 20:51   #260
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
Sourcing officially upgraded from Alex Jones to British tabloids. Well, at least he's heading in the right direction.
One more belittling reply.

" That the best you got George ? "
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Old 11-08-2013, 21:19   #261
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Re: Climate Change

For people wanting an interesting perspective on Darwin-ism I'll give you this;

The standard view of evolution is that living things are shaped by cold-hearted competition. And there is no doubt that today's plants and animals carry the genetic legacy of ancestors who fought fiercely to survive and reproduce. But in this hour, we wonder whether there might also be a logic behind sharing, niceness, kindness ... or even, self-sacrifice. Is altruism an aberration, or just an elaborate guise for sneaky self-interest? Do we really live in a selfish, dog-eat-dog world? Or has evolution carved out a hidden code that rewards genuine cooperation?

link to podcast here

The Good Show - Radiolab
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Old 11-08-2013, 21:35   #262
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Re: Climate Change

Perhaps for unbiased environmental journalism this site claims

NO ADVERTISING, GOVERNMENT OR CORPORATE FUNDING

Environment
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Old 11-08-2013, 21:56   #263
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Originally Posted by Gadagirl View Post
Do we really live in a selfish, dog-eat-dog world? Or has evolution carved out a hidden code that rewards genuine cooperation?

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The Good Show - Radiolab
Or both at the same time? Black and white world is a very western concept

Radio lab is great, ta for link
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Old 11-08-2013, 22:35   #264
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Or both at the same time? Black and white world is a very western concept

Radio lab is great, ta for link
Right? Listen to the podcast. :-) No such thing as absolute altruism or absolute selfishness. Survival depends on both. But gives me hope that cooperation is a tool that can be utilized.
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Old 11-08-2013, 22:43   #265
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Re: Climate Change

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Perhaps for unbiased environmental journalism this site claims

NO ADVERTISING, GOVERNMENT OR CORPORATE FUNDING

Environment
I took a look and the site is certainly not without its own biases or agenda. They are quite clear about that if you look at their about us menu
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Old 12-08-2013, 04:50   #266
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Re: Climate Change

Interesting comments on Humanism .

I see Humanism as a broad church , but my view is that it is less about any belief in the Human spirit or a view that Humans somehow have inherent powers , let alone that "things will turn out ok / progress" as long as we all think happy thoughts ......and more that Humanists accept that it is down to us (humans) to create a better future - and that it can be done. Whether it is achieved is a different thing, as is what "better" actually comprises!

Obviously with the absence of any Sky Fairy(s) and friends (and family? ) to rely upon to do the thinking and / or heavy lifting there is a large degree of Atheism involved for many - but not all, but that is not an inherent part of Humanism. Indeed (just like with Secularism) plenty of folks with religion are also Humanists, whether they know it, accept it or not .

For some of course having no "magic answers" spoon-fed to them is scary , but for others it is all the more exciting and interesting because of having to puzzle solutions out for self and others.

Was an earlier comment(s) about folks being inherently selfish and that this affects the common good.....indeed it does!, but altruism can also have a selfish purpose - and IMO certainly enough to progress a society. Indeed part of the problem in large parts of the West (especially the Anglo Saxon economies) is that whilst folks may not be able to identify or articulate the root causes of the problems they face - nonetheless they inherently know that there is little point in putting into the communal pot because it simply gets emptied immediately rather than growing the pot for the benefit of everyone - and it gets looted by those who write the rules of the game at the top, not those on the bottom getting handouts / scraps from the table (working or not - all the same. Peasants & cannon fodder).

It's about harnessing the power of what humans have and not getting sucked into wishful thinking about what they could become........The future being bright or black is in own mind .
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:45   #267
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
I agree but I don't think the news is good. We, as an intelligent, near precognitive species, can recognize, analyze, and understand the problem but we are unable to "step outside of nature" to save ourselves. We cannot help ourselves. Kind of like a heroin addict recognizing he has a problem.
On further reflection, and perhaps to add a more useful response, growing research evidence suggests humans are not well adapted to dealing with these kinds of non-focused, large-scale problems. We've evolved to deal with immediate issues, and we do that extremely well. But we fail miserably when faced with large, non-specific threats.

As evidence I'd put forward any number of environmental dilemmas, of which the CO2 crises is only the latest (but perhaps "greatest"). Some argue the global economic system's performance over the past decades also illustrate the point. We've managed to think our way beyond our evolutionary limitations in the past, so it is possible we may get beyond the current set of crises (of which rapid climate change is only one), but if I were a bettin' man, I'd lay odds against us.

So it's less about being addicted, and more about simple limitations. Lions can't fly airplanes, spiders don't walk on two legs, and perhaps humans can't manage geographically large and disparate problems. It's just the kind of animals we've evolved to be.
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:46   #268
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Re: Climate Change

There is no denying that we are burning a lot of fossil fuels around the world, and the pollution doesn't magically disappear.

Now, I am more concerned about other pollution personally, but the impacts on the oceans from excess CO2 and other pollution is a big problem. All of the mercury, SO2, N2O...

Quote:
Greenhouse Gases
Carbon dioxide () is one of the greenhouse gases. It consists of one carbon atom with an oxygen atom bonded to each side. When its atoms are bonded tightly together, the carbon dioxide molecule can absorb infrared radiation and the molecule starts to vibrate. Eventually, the vibrating molecule will emit the radiation again, and it will likely be absorbed by yet another greenhouse gas molecule. This absorption-emission-absorption cycle serves to keep the heat near the surface, effectively insulating the surface from the cold of space.

Greenhouse Effect: Background Material

Science!



The extra carbon and other air pollution gets carried over to the next year, year after year...

Calculus!


The one issue I have with Climate Science/Research is where the Mauna Loa Observatory is located. It is at 3,400m elevation. Well, doesn't cold (air temperature) CO2 sink in air? How many ppm of CO2 are there at sea level in HI away from volcanoes and vegetation, if it is reading 400ppm way up high?
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:53   #269
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Re: Climate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadagirl View Post
For people wanting an interesting perspective on Darwin-ism I'll give you this;

The standard view of evolution is that living things are shaped by cold-hearted competition. And there is no doubt that today's plants and animals carry the genetic legacy of ancestors who fought fiercely to survive and reproduce. But in this hour, we wonder whether there might also be a logic behind sharing, niceness, kindness ... or even, self-sacrifice. Is altruism an aberration, or just an elaborate guise for sneaky self-interest? Do we really live in a selfish, dog-eat-dog world? Or has evolution carved out a hidden code that rewards genuine cooperation?

link to podcast here

The Good Show - Radiolab
Well, like I said, if you read Darwin's Descent of Man, you'll see that he addressed all of these things with great thoroughness and delicacy.
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:57   #270
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Re: Climate Change

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So it's less about being addicted, and more about simple limitations. Lions can't fly airplanes, spiders don't walk on two legs, and perhaps humans can't manage geographically large and disparate problems. It's just the kind of animals we've evolved to be.
Well we better get better at it, given weve created enough of them!
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