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Old 05-04-2007, 10:46   #1
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Bumfuzzle banned? . . .

. . . In the latest update on the bumfuzzle.com website, their March 28,2007 entry from Luperon, DR includes the following:

"Next we were on the internet when we found out that the chat rooms have banned Bumfuzzle. The cruisers forum website, where the Bumfuzzle thread holds the record for most discussed topic ever, has locked all Bumfuzzle threads from further discussion and apparently is now even deleting new threads. The thing that gets me is that their tagline reads, "discussion board and photo gallery for cruising sailors and wannabes." And here I thought that our website was a pretty good resource for those very people. Guess not though, the "real" cruisers that run that site have concluded that our story is irrelevant to those wannabe cruisers and needn't be discussed any further."

It's very hard to believe that this could be true. Would one of the Mods like to address this?

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Old 05-04-2007, 13:08   #2
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deleted posts

I had a couple of Bumfuzzle posts deleted at the end of one of the previous threads. Perhaps I posted just when the thread was being closed?

Now that a new thread has been created, I'll repost them.

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Old 05-04-2007, 13:18   #3
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With all due repsect to the "fans" of the Bumfuzzle's.

The reason why the thread was locked up. Or deleted. Was probably because the "Mod's" were getting a lot of "heat". And they also seen that the negative (flamming) that the posts about the Fuzzle's where generating. Provided them the need to "lock up" and "delete" those posts.

Just think about what I just said? Have you ever heard about "flamming"??

I have been on this site. When the flame war started. So I think IMHO. To keep this under wraps. And let by gones. Be by gones. What is said. Is said, about the Fuzzle's.

Plenty of people don't agree with them. And a lot of the members on this "forum", mostly disagree with what they are promoting. In which is what started the flame war in the first place.

Now I hope that this post fully explained "why" that this came to be in the first place.
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Old 05-04-2007, 13:19   #4
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related to previous Bumfuzzle threads

To anyone coming to this thread, you'll have to read the other Bumfuzzle threads to get my references.

Disagreements, as exhibited by the discussion in the Bumfuzzle threads, are actually quite common when someone new joins a sport (religion, hobby, political party) and does it a different way. Especially if the longtime practioners are extremely invested psychologically (spiritually, mentally, intellectually, financially) and they think the newcomers actions are disrespectful of the accepted way of doing things. (Which really gets taken to mean disrespecting them personally.)

Pat and Ali seem to just want a great adventure in going around the world on a sailboat. They have taken calculated risks that the new technologies of modern catamaran and electronic navigation meant that they could do it without having to learn things like splicing line.

They're not wrong, they're just different. Wrong would mean they'd be dead by now. They have as much right as anybody else to be on the water.

Hell, if anyone here had gone back a thousand years to tell the Polynesians that they couldn't explore the Pacific until the compass and sextant were invented, they would literally have been eaten for dinner at the going-to-sea feast.

In twenty years the GPS oldtimers will be bitching about the dangerous newbies who are relying on nav-data sent directly to wireless plugs embedded in their skulls. They won't have to look at screens, they'll just "know" where they are at all times.
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Old 05-04-2007, 13:21   #5
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sailing or motoring

I have only read the Bumfuzzle logs up to the Med, so I'm not sure how they're doing on their sailing/motoring ratio now.

Again, based on comments in previous threads:
There were a few derisive comments about whether or not they were actually sailors because their logs make it seem like they are motoring more than sailing. Here is an excerpt from their logs after about 1/2 around:

"september 6 2005 : gulf of Carpentaria

.....
And here are some fun numbers. We have used 645 gallons of diesel fuel at an average cost of $3.09 US per gallon (cheapest: Galapagos Islands at $1.02/gallon, most expensive: Sydney, Australia at $5.50/gallon).
Just under $2000, or roughly $100 per month. I can only estimate, but I would guess that one quarter of that was used at anchor to charge the batteries. Another quarter was used to motorsail which on average probably adds about 2 knots to our sailing speed and the remaining half for straight motoring which by motoring with one engine at a time at relatively low RPM's gives us a speed of roughly 4.5 knots. Fuel consumption is also close to .5 gallons per hour. So what does all that mean? If correct it would mean that we have motored/motorsailed about 3,5oo miles out of those 14,500. Which also means it's cost us about 56 cents per mile that we have motored. Of course, other than the amount of fuel and the cost, the rest of those numbers are just guesses, but I think they sound about right......"


It looks like they're sailing to me.

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Old 05-04-2007, 13:37   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainK

. . . The reason why the thread was locked up. Or deleted. Was probably because the "Mod's" were getting a lot of "heat". And they also seen that the negative (flamming) that the posts about the Fuzzle's where generating. Provided them the need to "lock up" and "delete" those posts.

Just think about what I just said? Have you ever heard about "flamming"??

. . . Plenty of people don't agree with them. And a lot of the members on this "forum", mostly disagree with what they are promoting. In which is what started the flame war in the first place. . . .
Hello Captain K,

I've been a member of many forums on the Net and I've witnessed lots of flame wars. The most common way, that I've seen, of dealing with flame wars has been that the moderators send private emails to the flamers requesting that they cease their rudeness. If the flames continue, the flamers get locked out.

I can't remember a time when the thread itself was locked out because of flaming wars.

The problem with locking a thread for that reason is this: it punishes the adults as well as the juvenile delinquents. The flamers get a victory, of sorts. Everyone else loses.

I'm an adult and quite capable of recognizing and ignoring flames. I found quite a few worthwhile and interesting comments in those threads and felt that the discussion was worth continuing.

If you don't like a thread, don't read it. It's that simple.

The Bumfuzzles don't appear to be "promoting" anything. They're just writing up the stories of their journey as they see them. If this forum is an element of democracy and free speech, and the participants aren't calling for terrorist acts or political assassination, then it shouldn't matter how many people disagree with them.

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Old 05-04-2007, 13:51   #7
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Seems like 90% of the threads I read where a person is asking a question they get maybe 3-5 answer before someone jumps in to argue with one of the responders about their answer. It's on every board I visit with the noteable exception of the Cape Dory board.
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Old 05-04-2007, 13:56   #8
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Originally Posted by rtbates
Seems like 90% of the threads I read where a person is asking a question they get maybe 3-5 answer before someone jumps in to argue with one of the responders about their answer. It's on every board I visit with the noteable exception of the Cape Dory board.
Yeah, I know what you mean Randy. But aren't most of those just differences of opinion? For me it becomes a flame when it devolves into name calling and snide remarks.

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Old 05-04-2007, 14:15   #9
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Welcome to the board, charliemagee . . .

. . . It's good to read a fellow multihuller who is calm, rational and (a rarity here) understands grammar and can spell.

I, too, have followed the Bums for some time. I first found their site when they were in the Pacific, bound for the Society Islands. For me, there is a real arc evident in their writing, their sailing and their attitude.

They are in the Dominican Republic presently, and will be returning to Ft. Lauderdale sometime before the last weekend this month. While Eugene is a long way from South Florida, Ali and Pat will be hosting a gathering of friends, family and fans aboard Bumfuzzle on Saturday, April 28th.

Hope to see you there!

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Old 05-04-2007, 14:58   #10
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Agree 100% with TaoJones and Charliemagee. Is this true - the subject is banned?

I guess I lead a sheltered life because I only found out about Bumfuzzle about 2 weeks ago shortly after I saw an add for a wildcat catamaran - a boat I had also never heard of. I take it that Bumfuzzle discussions have sometimes gotten out of control: the boat; the builder; and the crew have been ridiculed and flamed. I have read their logs, and maybe these people were spectacularly lucky. But, they are about 200 miles from completing a circumnavigation; they have publicly shared the good, the bad, and the ugly; and they did it with zero experience and an unconventional "my way" attitude. If this subject always generates flames, then the flames should be deleted. These folks made it and I think they deserve loud "well done!"
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Old 05-04-2007, 16:28   #11
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Quote:
I've been a member of many forums on the Net and I've witnessed lots of flame wars. The most common way, that I've seen, of dealing with flame wars has been that the moderators send private emails to the flamers requesting that they cease their rudeness. If the flames continue, the flamers get locked out.
We don't have any one way to deal with all possible thread problems. The general rule is if you become a problem in a thread you'll be asked in a private email to take the hint. We understand people get carried away at times. We find 99% of the time a reminder solves most problems.

When the thread gets out of control it can also be locked. Some times it's too much work to clean it up and leave enough to follow and it just gets deleted. Both situations are rare when you consider there are over 7,000 threads and 76,000 posts and 5,700 members. By the numbers this place is pretty well behaved.
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Old 05-04-2007, 17:35   #12
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Paul, that falls a little short of a clear explanation of why the orig. thread is gone.

I hadn't posted on it in months, because it was becoming increasingly insipid. But if stupidity were a capital offense, I'd be under a headstone by now. Why the axe?
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Old 05-04-2007, 17:48   #13
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Quote:
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Paul, that falls a little short of a clear explanation of why the orig. thread is gone.
The thread is still there.

Unfortunate turn!

Wheels locked it up, he explains his reasoning there.
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Old 05-04-2007, 18:06   #14
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Quote:
I hadn't posted on it in months, because it was becoming increasingly insipid.
You were not alone. It's why it was locked up. It wasn't about the topic it was about the members posting on it. For the record the Bumfuzzle crew has not been here - ever as far as being members. We have absolutely no problem with them or even the topic. It was the direction of the discussion about them that became a concern. That is and always has been the problem with the very few threads that have come up on the radar screen.

It falls under the category of "working and playing well with others". When you do that we welcome your thoughts on most anything. Most people here do that naturally so we have grown to think we can expect from everyone. We have no intention of changing that policy. That is as clear an explanation as you can expect. We don't name names but we do keep score.
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Old 05-04-2007, 18:55   #15
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i actually quite enjoyed some of the conversations that went on in this thread there was quite a bit of tongue in cheek humour, i wouldnt have thought that there would be many here who have thought it necessary to lock it and certainly the last couple of comments are inane enough
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