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Old 13-07-2008, 12:57   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoJones View Post
I respectfully disagree, Jonesee.

Let me try to re-phrase Sean's query:

If a cruising sailor comes to a place that provides (pay) docks, (pay) mooring balls and (free) anchorage, but the anchorage is limited to adequate room for about four vessels (so once the free anchorage is filled his options are to either pay for a mooring ball or dock space, or continue on) then is it ethical for a local vessel-owner to permanently take one of the anchoring spots and never vacate it?

The anchoring-out option is traditionally for transient sailors and, in my experience, most people understand this to mean "short-term." It is the equivalent of a thirty-minute parking zone directly in front of a medical building. Is it ethical for a "resident" of the building to park his car in the zone and never move it? After all, he pays rent while those who are dropping off or picking up patients are "just passing through."

If a person in such a locale as Sean described takes 25% of the anchorage with his vessel, it's no big deal:

- unless he never vacates the spot;

- unless he is a local and knows full-well space is limited in the anchorage;

- unless there is more-than-sufficient dockage and mooring balls, for which payment is required;

- unless paying for dockage or a mooring ball is, for him, an insignificant sum.

What I find surprising is that in a cruising forum, ostensibly filled with active cruisers - that is, the very people who often rely on anchorages - many have reacted to Sean's question as if they were local boat-owners who seldom leave their home port.

To such inactive voyagers, transient boaters are intruders; uninvited interlopers using "their" water, fuel, showers, dinghy docks and, yes, anchorages - without contributing to the local tax base. I'm astonished to read this point of view on a forum with the sub-head "Cruising Boats, Cruising People, Cruising Answers."

Could it be there are people here who haven't actually cruised their vessels; who seldom sail more than a few miles from their home ports; who return to their familiar slip each evening; who have deeper roots in a single locale than their cruising dreams acknowledge?

For me, Sean's original question is to the point and well-worth asking - but then Sean is an active cruiser.

TaoJones

Tao, You don't know me. I am not cruising because I still have 2 sons in high school and 1 in college and their well being is more important than me playing at this stage of my life. I also have a company who's employees' well being is more important than me playing at this point in my life. I do live 20 minutes from my boat and I am on it weekly at least. Interesting how much you thought you knew me.

Last I checked, a well reasoned, well worded question doesn't allow much room for people to misuderstand or assume. Looking at your background I assumed you would agree.

Gang it has been fun, but I think I will go wherever Wheels has gone. Not a real friendly place anymore and there are too many web communities out there.
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Old 13-07-2008, 13:07   #47
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Well, geeze... from your post, it would appear Tao knew you very well. He did call it perfectly. It doesn't matter *why* you aren't cruising. It matters if you are a local or a transient and you are a local. That's all he was saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesee View Post
Tao, You don't know me. I am not cruising because I still have 2 sons in high school and 1 in college and their well being is more important than me playing at this stage of my life. I also have a company who's employees' well being is more important than me playing at this point in my life. I do live 20 minutes from my boat and I am on it weekly at least. Interesting how much you thought you knew me.

Last I checked, a well reasoned, well worded question doesn't allow much room for people to misuderstand or assume. Looking at your background I assumed you would agree.

Gang it has been fun, but I think I will go wherever Wheels has gone. Not a real friendly place anymore and there are too many web communities out there.
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Old 13-07-2008, 13:09   #48
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Originally Posted by TaoJones View Post
local boat-owners who seldom leave their home port.
Ouch

(of course it only hurts cos' it is true )

But still doesn't change my feelings on the subject (or about the original post in question which does seem to have been rather generously interpreted here . Me was wayyyyyy too polite (and lazy ) to tackle that in the original thread - of course silence also gets misinterpreted ).
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Old 13-07-2008, 13:17   #49
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Well, geeze... from your post, it would appear Tao knew you very well. He did call it perfectly. It doesn't matter *why* you aren't cruising. It matters if you are a local or a transient and you are a local. That's all he was saying.
You are right Sully I can't argue with you. I need to sell my house, sell my business, let my kids fend for themselves and move into the back of a truck like you. That will make me special, heck someone might even consider me a sailor after I sail ANOTHER 30 years. Will 60 years on the water qualify me Sully??

We all have our priorities, mine are a little too conventional for you I guess. Take Care I am outta here.

Sorry Gord. Delete my screen name when you see fit.
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Old 13-07-2008, 13:31   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesee View Post
You are right Sully I can't argue with you. I need to sell my house, sell my business, let my kids fend for themselves and move into the back of a truck like you. That will make me special, heck someone might even consider me a sailor after I sail ANOTHER 30 years. Will 60 years on the water qualify me Sully??

We all have our priorities, mine are a little too conventional for you I guess. Take Care I am outta here.

Sorry Gord. Delete my screen name when you see fit.


Two down.
Come on girls, enough already.
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Old 13-07-2008, 15:12   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesee View Post
Tao, You don't know me. I am not cruising because I still have 2 sons in high school and 1 in college and their well being is more important than me playing at this stage of my life. I also have a company who's employees' well being is more important than me playing at this point in my life. I do live 20 minutes from my boat and I am on it weekly at least. Interesting how much you thought you knew me. <snip>
I don't know if you will ever read this, Jonesee, but I think it's necessary that I post it, just the same.

While I had begun my post by quoting from your's, I did so because I wanted to point out that we disagreed on the validity of Sean's now closed thread, http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ght-16982.html I went on to state why I felt his question was a worthwhile one for a cruising forum, and I expressed my observation that those who had posted to his thread and taken the "local sailor's position" seemed, oddly, to be arguing against their own best interests - if they're active cruisers, that is.

Because I couldn't recall what you had posted to the thread, I've just pulled it up to refresh my memory. Surprisingly, you didn't post anything to the thread at all.

So you're correct, I don't know you - but then I never pretended to. You're also incorrect, if you think my post was a personal letter to you. That you have taken my post so personally is unfortunate, because it was written with those who had posted so negatively to Sean's "Is this right?" thread in mind. And since you never posted to that thread, that can't possibly include you, ipso facto. Other than the opening quote from your prior post, I never gave you another thought.

That you have chosen to self-identify with the "local, non-cruising, sailors" group is fine, and if you choose to take umbrage at my post, I can't help that. As for choosing to leave this forum, well, that's up to you, too. I hope you will re-consider, though.

I also hope that you will re-read my post and come to realize that it wasn't directed at you in any way. Nor, for that matter, should anyone who reads it who is not actively cruising consider it a put-down.

A careful reading of the post should make that perfectly clear.

TaoJones
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Old 13-07-2008, 15:21   #52
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Misconceptions -Who needs em ?

Im with Tellie,

Lets brush this who got the misconception ball tossed to them the wrong way and get back to the real issue-being friendly and fostering a sense of shared value in yachting and all the good things that go with it-whether your a 40 year veteran or simply a newbie like me who wants to learn from some exeprienced people.
We should not be losing any forume members due to petty words.
On that note-internet attack is so easy.How many times have we all pressed that send button only to cringe a bit later when we realised we may have got a bit "precious" in reply.?

Lets all toss the percieved misconceptions and "done wrongs" in the middle.
Take a match and light it.
Stand back and watch it burn.

Walk away knowing its gone for good.

Regards and best wishes.

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Old 13-07-2008, 15:36   #53
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Wow... never in a million years did I think asking about anchoring ethics/etiquette would cause this kind of evil between people.

Joneses - you don't like adventure - that's fine with me. But please don't say that because I live adventurously, there is something wrong with that. I didn't say there is anything wrong with not cruising, and there isn't. I also didn't say (or even imply) that you have no experience sailing. 30 years is more than I have. I'm only a smidge over 20 years. You have 10 years more than me, but that isn't what we were talking about. We were talking about locals vs. transients (aka cruisers).

Tao Jones just hit on what was probably the most important part of this conversation/fiasco. The views seem to differ based on if you are a cruiser or a "land owner" with a boat.

Oddly, it was the "land owners" with boats that had the gripe with this guy hogging their nice lunch anchorage. What surprises me is how different the land owners on this board feel compared to the land owners where the guy was anchoring feel.


Well, it's been beaten to death... I guess I'm done. TaoJones - thank you for re-phrasing my question. Seems many people didn't understand it, don't understand what you are saying and maybe never will. Maybe they don't have a sense of ethics when it comes to boating... I don't know... I find I am different than a lot of folks (on this board) when it comes to ethics. I tend to stand up for things. I will bow out with my tail between my legs now.

I only hope Wheels comes back and the topic (however innocently asked) fades away. If I could go back and hit "delete" (or was still a Mod), I'd delete it in a second.
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Old 13-07-2008, 16:11   #54
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Thread closed for now

I'm closing this thread for now. Although the intention is basically good, I think, it's beginning to generate some hard feelings. I intend to discuss this with other members of the CF team tomorrow. It's Sunday evening where I live, and no other mods or admins are online right now.

Stand by.

EDIT: OK, it's closed for good. Let's move on, and talk about cruising for a change!
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