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Old 11-07-2016, 15:07   #106
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

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Originally Posted by siamese View Post

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Americans are increasingly fat too, but let's not blame the spoons. If our culture has gone awry, let's address that, but we'll likely have to be a lot less PC to accomplish anything.
I don't blame the guns any and I more than blame McDonald's. I blame Americans with guns and McDonald's.

But that was just a standard silly reason of why Americans should be able to have assault rifles etc.

Whats your solution to try to get Americans from stopping to shot each, because mine is to reduce the guns?

BTW - I don't feel we are the model of government systems anymore by far.
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Old 11-07-2016, 15:13   #107
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

Some politicians supported a bill making it unlawful for anyone on the no-fly list to buy a gun. The NRA supported that bill with the stipulation that the sale of a gun to someone on the no-fly list could be held up for three days, during which time the government could go to a judge and get a warrant. If no warrant was forthcoming from the government then the sale of the gun would proceed.

That was the issue.

The Bahamian issue: My son went through cub and Boy Scouts with a black friend. They became Eagle together and had their Eagle banquet together. Both boys are 20 now and they drive and both have been stopped by police. This is only anecdotal , but in my opinion my son's black friend is scrutinized to a greater extent than my white son is, to the extent that I would not want to be driving while black. I'm not going to provide specifics on the Internet.

Everyone should be very careful interacting with the police in the US.
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Old 11-07-2016, 15:25   #108
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

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I'm an American who believes the United States Constitution is mankind's single greatest accomplishment. Limits government and guarantees liberty. Whether it was a stroke of genius or a stroke of luck, I'm grateful for it.

Sure, it can be amended, but to reduce or eliminate basic freedoms, no thank you.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Americans are increasingly fat too, but let's not blame the spoons. If our culture has gone awry, let's address that, but we'll likely have to be a lot less PC to accomplish anything.
So greek and roman participative democracy a few thousand years back - not so much
The magna carta - again not so much,
The westminster system of government - not so much.
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Old 11-07-2016, 15:31   #109
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

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Freedom isn't always easy, but it sure beats the alternative.
And then the perfect response...

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Lots of countries are enjoying Freedom pretty easy without having a gun culture.
And the perfect follow up.

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You are confused or you would know we aren't rational.
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I'm an American who believes the United States Constitution is mankind's single greatest accomplishment.
So... forget the wheel, or penicillin, or the internal combustion engine, or the scientific method, or the marconi rig, or public sanitation?

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Originally Posted by siamese View Post
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Americans are increasingly fat too, but let's not blame the spoons. If our culture has gone awry, let's address that, but we'll likely have to be a lot less PC to accomplish anything.
I actually have some sympathy for this view (surprise, surprise). There are plenty of countries which have lots of guns, yet we don't shoot each other like Americans do. Canada has nearly the same level of gun ownership, and some European countries exceed US numbers. So I agree, it's not specifically a gun problem. It seems to be a cultural violence problem.

But if you recognize this, then that is an even stronger argument to restrict access to guns. An angry person with fists can do limited damage. Access to a knife and it ramps up. Give them a limited-ammo gun and the body count goes up. Hand them a semi-auto, easy reload rifle and you now have a mass shooting.
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Old 11-07-2016, 15:32   #110
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

The words included clearly state "shall not be infringed"... so in my eyes it's pretty plain that we have the right to keep and bear any arms that could be used in a militia, now and forever.

Where else in the constitution do those words appear? No where else. Constitutional lawyers will say "well there is legal precedent.. Blah blah blah...supreme court can interpret blah blah blah..." But in my opinion the bill of rights are not just laws. They are in fact irrevocable rights above the reach of the Supreme Court that must be interpreted literally. There must be something beyond the reach of the government. Other laws following the bill of rights should rightfully be within the reach of the government.


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Old 11-07-2016, 15:41   #111
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Flare View Post
Some politicians supported a bill making it unlawful for anyone on the no-fly list to buy a gun. The NRA supported that bill with the stipulation that the sale of a gun to someone on the no-fly list could be held up for three days, during which time the government could go to a judge and get a warrant. If no warrant was forthcoming from the government then the sale of the gun would proceed.

That was the issue.

The Bahamian issue: My son went through cub and Boy Scouts with a black friend. They became Eagle together and had their Eagle banquet together. Both boys are 20 now and they drive and both have been stopped by police. This is only anecdotal , but in my opinion my son's black friend is scrutinized to a greater extent than my white son is, to the extent that I would not want to be driving while black. I'm not going to provide specifics on the Internet.

Everyone should be very careful interacting with the police in the US.
My guess is that black males are far more involved in violent crime than other demographics?
If so, that would make the police much more careful and indeed trigger happy so as to save their own hide.
Of course there is white and yellow scumbags too, but in certain neighborhoods
And certain areas of town a black male is much more likely to pull a gun and kill the police officer than a white or Chinese grandmother in the same situation.
It is called profiling and it works quite well: The Israeli airport security have used it for years: If a young Arab male buys a one-way ticket with cash on El-Al airline, he is probably up to no good. Hence El-Al has not been high-jacked since 1968.
If the US of A had used profiling on 9/11 thousands of people and tall buildings would still be around.
Pretty basic folks, but not politically correct.
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Old 11-07-2016, 15:45   #112
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

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My guess is that black males are far more involved in violent crime than other demographics?
If so, that would make the police much more careful and indeed trigger happy so as to save their own hide.
Of course there is white and yellow scumbags too, but in certain neighborhoods
And certain areas of town a black male is much more likely to pull a gun and kill the police officer than a white or Chinese grandmother in the same situation.
It is called profiling and it works quite well: The Israeli airport security have used it for years: If a young Arab male buys a one-way ticket with cash on El-Al airline, he is probably up to no good. Hence El-Al has never been high jacked.
If the US of A had used profiling on 9/11 thousands of people and tall buildings would still be around.
Pretty basic folks, but not politically correct.
Well here is a dilemma. Racial profiling has been found to be against your constitutional rights
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Old 11-07-2016, 15:50   #113
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

We have well over 300 million firearms in the US. We have produced and 100 million firearms since 2009. We have far more guns than cars in the US.

It is estimated that we have 12 trillion rounds of ammunition in private hands but I think that number is very high. I put the number at the much more conservative 120 billion.

We're strapped, and, as a nation, if we were violent you would have read about it.
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Old 11-07-2016, 15:52   #114
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

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Well here is a dilemma. Racial profiling has been found to be against your constitutional rights
I didn't think it was a constitutional issue. Cite?
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Old 11-07-2016, 15:55   #115
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

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Originally Posted by CSY Man View Post
My guess is that black males are far more involved in violent crime than other demographics?
If so, that would make the police much more careful and indeed trigger happy so as to save their own hide.
Of course there is white and yellow scumbags too, but in certain neighborhoods
And certain areas of town a black male is much more likely to pull a gun and kill the police officer than a white or Chinese grandmother in the same situation.
It is called profiling and it works quite well: The Israeli airport security have used it for years: If a young Arab male buys a one-way ticket with cash on El-Al airline, he is probably up to no good. Hence El-Al has not been high-jacked since 1968.
If the US of A had used profiling on 9/11 thousands of people and tall buildings would still be around.
Pretty basic folks, but not politically correct.
Thus the reason why I'm glad I don't drive while black and why the Bahamians were spot on to give their citizens a heads up.
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Old 11-07-2016, 15:56   #116
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Who "well regulates" the Militia that is "necessary to the security of the (govt) state" ?
Do all private gun owners belong to this "well regulated Militia" ?

Just wondering.
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Old 11-07-2016, 15:58   #117
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

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The words included clearly state "shall not be infringed"... so in my eyes it's pretty plain that we have the right to keep and bear any arms that could be used in a militia, now and forever.
If we were to follow that Logic to the extreme....would that include Nuclear weapons?

Getting back to analyzing the heightened stress in the US, I wonder if part of this is due to the incredible security alert data base, American LEO's use daily.

How many FALSE-NEGATIVES do they get that keeps them in such a high state of controlling posture?

I had a nightmare experience with this as my name was apparently being used by a "most wanted" IRA gun runner/bank robber.

Crossing into the US by car or boat brought out the guns, the rough handling and detention until they found out I was innocent.

It took a request under the Freedom of Information Act and an interview with FBI before they put a personal rider on this electronic alert.

That was years ago, now post 9/11 I can only imagine that the alerts have grown exponentially.

They have a very tough job!
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Old 11-07-2016, 15:59   #118
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

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I didn't think it was a constitutional issue. Cite?

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL31130.pdf

There's lots of references available. It's apparently been pointed out twice by your courts. Shouldn't be new. Considered a breach of the 4th.
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Old 11-07-2016, 16:03   #119
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

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If we were to follow that Logic to the extreme....would that include Nuclear weapons?

Getting back to analyzing the heightened stress in the US, I wonder if part of this is due to the incredible security alert data base, American LEO's use daily.

How many FALSE-NEGATIVES do they get that keeps them in such a high state of controlling posture?

I had a nightmare experience with this as my name was apparently being used by a "most wanted" IRA gun runner/bank robber.

Crossing into the US by car or boat brought out the guns, the rough handling and detention until they found out I was innocent.

It took a request under the Freedom of Information Act and an interview with FBI before they put a personal rider on this electronic alert.

That was years ago, now post 9/11 I can only imagine that the alerts have grown exponentially.

They have a very tough job!
this is the only bit that alarms me to what you posted. Such 'hits' of misinformation are going to happen. And police should be acting. But they can be much more professional about it. The police culture seems to be to way over react. And when this is the police culture then it's not hard to see how drawing a gun for a routine check, leads to pulling the trigger with mistaken beliefs that there was a danger.
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Old 11-07-2016, 16:05   #120
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Re: Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

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The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Who "well regulates" the Militia that is "necessary to the security of the (govt) state" ?
Do all private gun owners belong to this "well regulated Militia" ?

Just wondering.
ETA: The right to keep and bear arms is an individual right.

Yes they do. Every US citizen who owns a gun belongs to their state's militia.

That solves the individual vs. collective right to keep and bear arms, but in the event that a state were to dissolve its militia a resident could still keep and bear arms, the argument being that the founders could not have possibly foreseen the eventuality when people would need it enumerated on parchment that the army could have guns.
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