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Old 04-02-2014, 12:13   #106
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

yeah, the dredging spoils issue - the dump-it-at-sea was the last preferred choice of the reef authority for obvious reasons, but because it's the cheapest solution it becomes the first choice of the pay-per-view politicians - if i had my way i'd ship the bastards and their paymasters to perth and feed 'em to the white pointers...
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Old 04-02-2014, 15:10   #107
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Originally Posted by Parmenter View Post
Nothing like an ill informed media beat up.

Have a glance at these two stories.
We get fairly major floods up in the north on average probably every 5 to ten years.


Floods threaten Great Barrier Reef, La Niña to blame

Cattle, crops, and coral: Flood plumes and the Great Barrier Reef

Below is a picture I found online showing the flood plume from the Burnett river, near Abbot pt, which I have marked for clarity.

I feel its a bit of a tree hugger beat up, but I am by no means an expert on flood damage or dredging spoil damage, but I do know that there is 25 NM between Abbot pt and the reef and that flood plume is almost there in the picture.
Further south at Great Keppell Island there is reef surrounding it and its only a few miles from the coast.
Supposedly there was 100% coral death from the sediment dumped on it from the last flood so say some news reports.

And as others have said, its a bloody jetty NOT a port.
Gladstone further south, now that was something for them to get on their high horse about.
The Burnett River mouth (shown in above picture) is near Bundaberg, south of Gladstone and a long, long way south of Abbott Point where the proposed dumping is to occur.
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Old 04-02-2014, 17:07   #108
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Walking a thin moral line here... the croc and shark issue is tough for me. I know leaving the crocs and sharks alone is right thing to do but I am an avid ocean swimmer and I am starting to get scared...............
FWIW, I believe crocs are fast learners and adapt to changing conditions relativity quickly.

For instance, I spent a couple of years in the very far north Queensland (top end of Cape York) in the late 70s and got to chat with several ex croc hunters about their experiences during the 50's & 60's.

Back when unrestricted hunting had reduced the numbers to "bugga all", all crocs (large and small) never showed themselves when humans were about until they (the croc) has sussed you out. This typically took about 3 days if you were camping at any one spot. The trick to your survival was never to keep to a routine, especially after a couple of days. Never go to the water (or shore) at the same time each day and so on.

After around 10 or 15 years of no hunting, the numbers of crocs observed started to increase but attacks were still very rare. Now after some 40+ years, crocs sighting are common day events and they seem to have no fear of humans and consider us to be a useful part of their food chain - or so it seems to me.

Presumably a solution would be to have controlled culling of crocs, enough to keep them wary of us but not enough to decimate their numbers.

Never going to happen though - especially if it makes sense...
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Old 04-02-2014, 17:11   #109
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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The Burnett River mouth (shown in above picture) is near Bundaberg, south of Gladstone and a long, long way south of Abbott Point where the proposed dumping is to occur.
Yes, it is just down the road from Ayr, where I participated in clearing 50000 acres of woodland in the early 90s. What for? Another fast buck scheme. Many of the new cane farmers went broke then went back to the government for handouts.

The lesson is the economic benefits are temporary and the environmental damage is permanent. It's just dumb. We are smarter than that. We are sending the wrong message to the world. Australia is one of the wealthiest countries on earth. We don't need the extra $$.

We are saying selling coal is more important than our environment. The Queensland coast is already under enough stress from climate change.

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Old 04-02-2014, 17:34   #110
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Never go to the water (or shore) at the same time each day and so on....
Yeah. You are exactly right. I am much more scared of crocs than sharks. Crocs are very patient amd they think they are at the top of the food chain. I worked with a couple of other blokes filling holes in NT roads. We used to pump our water out of croc infested waterholes. Fascinating to watch them.

I agree - we need to keep reminding them who really is at the top of the food chain.

I think their natural range extends as far south as Brisbane. When they start going after people on the Sunshine Coast then common sense might prevail.

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Old 04-02-2014, 18:45   #111
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

The biggest problem I see with all this, and I live and cruise the reef, is it always starts off "it's only 3 million cubic mts". Then in a couple of years it'll be " it's only 5 million cubic mts...". The Water Corp in Townsville is already planning to reduce the water quality of its waste water outfall off the coast due to financial issues, but in their own words "it isn't as bad as the dredging that's taking place at Abbott Point or Gladstone".

The biggest problem with the approval is that it just gives other corporations (eg miners and govts) an excuse to lower their environmental standards with the old line "at least it's not as bad as...", all the while imposing tougher rules and regs on the general boating public to compensate for their greed and incompetence.

I would one day like my children to be able to sail, dive, fish and enjoy the reef with their kids as we are with them now, but I'm not holding out much hope atm. The greed and corruption has to end somewhere!
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Old 04-02-2014, 19:53   #112
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Interesting analogy there. if a lion eats a human in africa it is hunted and killed - no one getting on their bandwagon about that.

If a shark eats a human...
Well, to be fair, when there's a man-eating lion in Africa, they track and kill that lion... they don't set traps and nets that will kill any lion big or small, or anything that likes to eat the same bait as lions.

[/derail]

One macro-economic observation related to the new coal port: do you notice how alot of us big new-world countries (US, Canada, Australia) are falling all over themselves to extract and sell resources, especially fossil energy?

We're supposed to have the brightest and best workforces in the world, yet in both Canada and the US, the economies are betting big on oil (eg tarsands) & shale gas. Is this also the case in Oz?
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Old 05-02-2014, 02:25   #113
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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what a completely outrageous thing to say! Either you are trolling or you have no concept of human decency.

like to see you dribble that line to the wife and kids of the last poor surfer bitten in half at gracetown while pursuing an innocent and healthy pastime
Possibly overdoing the laconic thing a bit.

I'm sure the shark didn't bite him with malicious intent, and if you don't want the beggars to bite you then stay out of their territory. I live on the water full time and spend a fair bit of that in croc territory I know if I am contemptuous of a few croc safety rules there's a fair probability that one of the beggars will make a snack of me one day. Like the surfers I know they are there and that one of them might get me one day but if I want to continue to live my favored lifestyle I'll just live with that possibility and if one of them gets me tough luck.
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Old 08-02-2014, 16:56   #114
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Chalk up another human to great White shark at Edithburg in South australia yesterday.

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Old 08-02-2014, 17:47   #115
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

I think you have to first ask the key question;
Who has the right to live in the Ocean, Man or dangerous Sharks?
Then formulate a solution based on that premise.

If Sharks ..then stay out of their waters and respect their territorial rights!

If it is Man, ..then you must kill ALL potentially dangerous sharks without hesitation.
There is no PC solution!

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Old 08-02-2014, 19:00   #116
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

[QUOTE=RaymondR;1459506]Possibly overdoing the laconic thing a bit.

I'm sure the shark didn't bite him with malicious intent, and if you don't want the beggars to bite you then stay out of their territory. I live on the water full time and spend a fair bit of that in croc territory I know if I am contemptuous of a few croc safety rules there's a fair probability that one of the beggars will make a snack of me one day. Like the surfers I know they are there and that one of them might get me one day but if I want to continue to live my favored lifestyle I'll just live with that possibility and if one of them gets me tough luck.[/QUOTE

no loss to the gene pool if the crocs get lucky then
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Old 08-02-2014, 19:03   #117
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
I think you have to first ask the key question;
Who has the right to live in the Ocean, Man or dangerous Sharks?
Then formulate a solution based on that premise.

If Sharks ..then stay out of their waters and respect their territorial rights!

If it is Man, ..then you must kill ALL potentially dangerous sharks without hesitation.
There is no PC solution!

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So, it's totally one or the other? No middle ground? Wow, sounds like our politicians.

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Old 08-02-2014, 19:22   #118
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Dan... The politicians would have you believe that some "culling" would solve the problem.... I think that is BS!

Start with the key question and make policy based on that.

Respect the sharks right to exist in an environment that we rarely visit?

Then
Net off safe area for recreational diving or swimming

Develop better shark repellent systems

Once they become land sharks and invade our streets...then that is a different story

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Old 08-02-2014, 19:24   #119
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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If it is Man, ..then you must kill ALL potentially dangerous sharks without hesitation.
There is no PC solution!

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There is a solution that has kept NSW shark death free since 1936 and Queensland free of deaths since the 1950’s. That netting the popular beaches.

It is PC. Though I might prefer to use greenies as bait in a shark fishing competition.



Why do we need to know how you typed your post?


Mark <---- who can type by himself.
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Old 08-02-2014, 19:30   #120
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

He does not type that. It is a thing that these new fangled devices do.

Coops.
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