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Old 01-02-2014, 15:03   #31
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Yes. Actually, that is not quite true. It is not illegal to not vote, but you have to have a good excuse to not do so. Used to be demanded on a stat dec.

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Old 01-02-2014, 15:10   #32
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Cwjohm, you make a number of very good points. Particularly about people failing to make the actual step of acting out their apparent political convictions when they vote green, but live brown.

That's why I am careful not to express my concerns here as political, as they are not political. You are right, both flavours of government approved this particular project.

But here is where I diverge in my thinking, when you say I should be grateful that we balance our care of the environment against our standard of living. I feel we are swinging way too far to the standard of living argument. No, I don't think we should all live in tents and drink rainwater while failing to wash in case the soap runoff spoils the reef. But I do think the current standard of living benchmark is becoming unsustainable. Why do we need 300 square meter houses with 7hp airconditioners for just two or three people? This is being touted to me as "the Australian standard of living".

Somewhere there is a balance between all of this, and I think Australia is getting the balance wrong, and I feel it is being justified by economic arguments, rather than social values.

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Old 01-02-2014, 15:12   #33
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I am Australian, have cruised the Queenland ( great Barrier reef ) many times and currently cruise overseas. Australians are spoilt and have the luxury to whine and complain. I hear them whinge about our medical system, education system and pretty much every other social supporting system we have which I should add are generally supplied free of charge. The rest of the world would be shocked to know what we are entitled to. We think it's normal to buy 2-3 cappacinos a day at $4:50 each! Australia is a clean and beautiful country that is not even close to being destroyed by over development. Ridiculous over regulation is stifling progress massively at a local, state and federal level. Minority groups are noisy and combined with a non patriotic press are almost treasonous! Political parties are hamstrung by the people who can never be satisfied. Unfortunately we don't truly know the Freedom and luxury we have, the irony is its getting eroded everytime we complain as new legislation is introduced to keep the spoilt masses happy. The Great Barrier Reef is not in trouble and the Australian media is not reputable source of fact.
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Old 01-02-2014, 15:17   #34
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Better get a word in before this political thread closes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Didn't you guys just recently replace your last mockery of a government? ....
Yep, two in a row - sad reflection on us
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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
........
I am always amused by the fixation on leadership, the Prime Minister has no legal power, none, zip. In fact the term Prime Minister is not even mentioned in our constitution. Anywhere.
I am amused that anyone thinks a powerful person needs to be legal. In fact, being legal is most often an hindrance to useful power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
......
As far as Abbott point is concerned it went through 4 years of analysis and was supported by both sides of politics.........
I believe this is half true, the principle of the dredging was supported by both sides however what to do with the tailings was not. I don't have the details at hand but I understand there were 5+ recommendations.

The most environmentally friendly one was the most expensive and supported by the previous mob.
The least environmentally one was the cheapest and is supported by this mob.

This is no surprise of course.
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Old 01-02-2014, 15:22   #35
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Trying to remember... Is voting in Australia mandatory ?

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Yes. Actually, that is not quite true. It is not illegal to not vote, but you have to have a good excuse to not do so. Used to be demanded on a stat dec.

Coops.
Also not quite true, attending a polling booth and having your name crossed off the list is compulsory (with out reasonable excuse); however there is no requirement to cast a vote once you have attended. AFAIK, no legal advice intended
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Old 01-02-2014, 15:24   #36
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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...pretty much on mining for our prosperity.
Apart from the Greens, I think a lot of hard working people and business men wished Australia relied on mining a little bit less. The mining boom inflated the $AUD so much for so long it destroyed most of our other foreign currency earners and sent many of our smart people overseas to find jobs in their fields.


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Old 01-02-2014, 15:48   #37
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

WOW makes you wonder what happened to the good old Aussie and that "give em a go " attitude ??? our country was built by strong people that kept their mouths shut unless they new what they were talking about. I wonder how many of the whingers even know where Abbott Point is and what is the true area that this development is in. Its a deserted coastline I know because it is my cruising ground it is no where near the reef and the details and charts released by our "elected governments" agency show this so get things straight read the facts go and look before you make non factual statements to the world on CF. I will be sailing passed this area in a couple of months and was there only 14months ago. Good on you Mark I know your not in Oz but you certainly keep you finger on the pulse of things over here. Those that are planning to bail out and scurry to NZ good on Ya we are not going to miss you. The people in the know in this part of Australia can see the changes in the reef and see a lot of good things happening like new growth where the reef was damaged by bleaching the banning of trawlers in large areas the work to limit the Crown of Thorns damage the work by Queensland sugar cane farmers to limit run off to the reef all good work Congrats to the people that are doing positive things and loud boos to the rest My turn to have a rant but as I am here on site I had to get my word in Cheers Jacko
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Old 01-02-2014, 15:50   #38
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

GILow

I understand your concerns and to some extent agree with them. But it isn't just about you and me. Australia is our people and all of the disparate views people have. I think you would be hard pressed to find anybody who is totally happy with all of the policy settings unless they are smoking something.

However, I believe in the axiom that if something is not right then you change it, and anyone can run for government in Australia. If you believe enough then there is the mechanism to change it. This is not true of many countries in the world even so called western democracies.

Not in reference to you but it seems to me that it is part of the Australian culture to complain about anybody who puts in. Better to sit on your behind and criticise than actually contribute to the debate. And then when a decision gets made, well it is axiomatic that it will be the wrong one.

At the end of the day you have to take the perceived good with the perceived bad and accept the peoples or their elected governments decision, otherwise the place comes to a standstill. If facts change then the decision can change, but for now all of the facts on Abbott Point have been done to death.
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Old 01-02-2014, 16:25   #39
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
GILow

I understand your concerns and to some extent agree with them. But it isn't just about you and me. Australia is our people and all of the disparate views people have. I think you would be hard pressed to find anybody who is totally happy with all of the policy settings unless they are smoking something.

However, I believe in the axiom that if something is not right then you change it, and anyone can run for government in Australia. If you believe enough then there is the mechanism to change it. This is not true of many countries in the world even so called western democracies.

Not in reference to you but it seems to me that it is part of the Australian culture to complain about anybody who puts in. Better to sit on your behind and criticise than actually contribute to the debate. And then when a decision gets made, well it is axiomatic that it will be the wrong one.

At the end of the day you have to take the perceived good with the perceived bad and accept the peoples or their elected governments decision, otherwise the place comes to a standstill. If facts change then the decision can change, but for now all of the facts on Abbott Point have been done to death.
All good points, and well made.

You are right, if I am not happy then I need to do something about it, not just complain, which as you and others correctly perceive, is a bit of an Australian tendency. We have an interesting South Australian politician here who went a long way on his willingness to stand up and make noise about something that concerned him. (Poker machines). I am no longer sure what he stands for now, but I guess he made a difference.

I don't know the ins and outs of the Abbott Point development, as I stated earlier, my concern is simply that Australians are heading down a path, which ironically, those of you who say we should compare ourselves with the state of other countries are actually reinforcing. We will wreck the joint before too long (just like those other countries), all in the name of economic development. Abbott Point may not be the one that does it, but something will, and when the dust settles we'll be left unable to pay the power bills on our huge air-conditioned houses as we run out of places to dig up and ship to China. Then what will become of our much vaunted "Australian Standard of Living."

I am not going to run for election, call me a coward or a pragmatist, I don't think I have what it takes, but I will live in a way that I see as doing the least damage to the planet I can, and help others to do the same when they ask me for help. Little steps in the background is all I have to offer.

Oh, and the odd rant. In pleading my defence, it was late on a very hot Saturday night and I had been stuck inside all day unable to get a single job finished all day. Cabin fever.

Matt
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Old 01-02-2014, 16:38   #40
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

This sure beats reading the sunday paper gents

With the exception of Mark and a few others what an uninformed bunch you are! Sucked in by the latest media sensationalist blurb....

They are moving some bottom sediment from one part of the ocean floor to another (not a harbour as others have said). As is usual in Australia tremendously extensive environmental protection hurdles have been cleared over a course of 5 years and with that passed the most cost effective option has been chosen. If we as taxpayers want to pay for a man made island instead then by all means lets do it otherwise let the developers involved upgrade their facilities. Jeez!

Onto the next media sensationalist frenzy - we are killing our sharks here in WA! time for some ill informed "stars" to tell us not to on twitter i guess....
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Old 01-02-2014, 16:46   #41
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Cruisers who pump up the paranoia may end up getting banned from the reef themselves.
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Old 01-02-2014, 16:47   #42
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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WOW makes you wonder what happened to the good old Aussie and that "give em a go " attitude ??? our country was built by strong people that kept their mouths shut
I've got a stronger back than most. Most so called men only lasted a few weeks on many of the FNQ and NT jobs I worked on.

True blue Aussies don't keep their mouthes shut. I've been in enough outback pubs on Saturday night to see that. We say our piece, maybe get riled up and swing a punch or two, then hug and have a few more beers.

No. What defines Australian politics is all the mouthes open. We really care. Passionate, smart, engaged, political debate. Compare and contrast Australian political debate with political debate in other countries. See the difference.

This isn't really a debate about one issue, it's a debate about values. It's about the environmental cost of the mining industry. The OP is really asking about Australian values. He is asking if we care more about the mining buck than our pristine coastline.



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Old 01-02-2014, 17:00   #43
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Shane Dennis don't you love miss quotes the media does it constantly !! you forgot the Qt ( unless they know what they are talking about) maybe you move in different circles I am not a pub fighter !!!
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Old 01-02-2014, 17:04   #44
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

I think the real issue here is the COAL.

I guess they reckon that ocean acidification will kill of the reef in the next generation anyway so why not make the $$$ whilst they can.

your current PM, the Canadian PM and George Bush believe in rapture so they'll be fine when the rest of us are screwed.
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Old 01-02-2014, 17:12   #45
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pirate Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Onto the next media sensationalist frenzy - we are killing our sharks here in WA! time for some ill informed "stars" to tell us not to on twitter i guess....
Naah... can't be bothered mate...
I'll leave that to the Aussies who actually use the frickin beach and surf to do that...
Seems like they've a fair bit of protest activity going on..
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