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Old 19-02-2014, 18:08   #241
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Wait till property crashes, all it takes is a little more unemployment. I can see the baby boomers tumbling from here...
Yes I agree. Doesn't mean I want to see that happen. Super profits could have gone into building sustainable industries alongside the resource industry. But both parties caved in to the industry intimidation and we're on the edge watching the Chinese economy wobble.
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Old 19-02-2014, 18:17   #242
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Who in Aust cares about the so called intrusion....I think it was a brilliant move to send them back in unsinkable liferafts to get around the issue of them being returned in leaky boats.
Tony Abbot and Scott Morrison say they care, and in fact have apologised. Lips are indeed moving.

I guess my point was more about whether it is believable that the Australian Navy isn't aware of its GPS position in regard to crossing territorial waters of Indonesia, and whether the Navy will not be hung out to dry for following directives of the Immigration Ministry to *safely* turn back asylum seekers in life rafts which in practice are contradictory (*safety* might dictate crossing the boundary).

Whilst I don't in fact support the policy, I don't think the Navy should have to take blame for the consequences of a purely political decision. The politicians should.
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Old 20-02-2014, 01:55   #243
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Who in Aust cares about the so called intrusion. ....

Well I care; the intrusion is factual, no one denies that. We say it was accidental and not deliberate or a navigational error - who are we kidding?. A first world navy knows where it's ship are to a metre and where boundaries are to the same metre. We should be the laughing stock of the world with this story.
We all know Indonesia has no navy to speak of and in past has after receiving a distress message in the Indonesian rescue area called on Aust vessels to do the rescues. They(Ind) really suckered the previous Labour govt. Perhaps they want us to give them some more vessels as we have just given Malaysia.

Indonesia police often have little fuel for their own police dingys and don't bother to patrol areas illegial immigrants leave from.

Its all about Indonesia playing their own politics.

It just doesn't matter who or what the Indo situation is; Aus should be always acting in a legal manner, especially our Navy when operating in international waters. It is what we should all expect of any nation but especially a first world one (and our one).

At least the flow of people seems to have almost ceased which will be good for both countries.

Agreed!

I think it was a brilliant move to send them back in unsinkable liferafts to get around the issue of them being returned in leaky boats.

Can't agree, we said they shouldn't come to Aussie in leaky boats but once we give them a safe boat, they should be free to travel the high seas unhindered. Any other other enforcement of where they can and can't go on the high seas borders on piracy in my mind.
It is the same if you where sailing near NZ or USA and their navy came along and said we don't think your small yacht is safe and bundled you into a liferaft and towed you back to Oz waters.
I do support any action to keep such vessels (ie one's without proper paperwork, clearances, crew lists, passports etc) out of Oz waters, even fair warnings and eventually shots over the bows or more.
.

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Originally Posted by RigelKent View Post
Tony Abbot and Scott Morrison say they care, and in fact have apologised. Lips are indeed moving.

I guess my point was more about whether it is believable that the Australian Navy isn't aware of its GPS position in regard to crossing territorial waters of Indonesia, and whether the Navy will not be hung out to dry for following directives of the Immigration Ministry to *safely* turn back asylum seekers in life rafts which in practice are contradictory (*safety* might dictate crossing the boundary).

Whilst I don't in fact support the policy, I don't think the Navy should have to take blame for the consequences of a purely political decision. The politicians should.
Agreed
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Old 20-02-2014, 02:18   #244
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

QUOTE Wotname "Can't agree, we said they shouldn't come to Aussie in leaky boats but once we give them a safe boat, they should be free to travel the high seas unhindered. Any other other enforcement of where they can and can't go on the high seas borders on piracy in my mind.
It is the same if you where sailing near NZ or USA and their navy came along and said we don't think your small yacht is safe and bundled you into a liferaft and towed you back to Oz waters.
I do support any action to keep such vessels (ie one's without proper paperwork, clearances, crew lists, passports etc) out of Oz waters, even fair warnings and eventually shots over the bows or more. "


end Quote

It is nowhere the same as one's small yacht visiting Indonesia with a CAIT.
These are dangerously overloaded vessels due for the scrap heap, organised by people smugglers with many lives already lost.

The Navy has been doing a difficult dangerous job well, keeping such vessels without proper paperwork, clearances, passports etc out of our waters with little help from Indonesia. Well done.

A full lifeboat 12NM in sight of land (Indonesia) might be safe but one could not consider it a safe vessel for a passage to Australia.

Cheers
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Old 20-02-2014, 03:29   #245
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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I thought China was holding the world's debt, in particularly 8% of US debt? Who does China owe all that debt to? Is it owed to private Chinese investors?
it's owed to the "rich", individuals and corporations......the "too rich to fail" folks .

But that not really the problem, the problem happens when that "money" (debt based on imaginary wealth) suddenly disappears from the real economy. The answer has been for those without to reimburse those who have (had?!).......but that not without cost, or risk.
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Old 20-02-2014, 06:39   #246
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Here's a nautical question - does a navy navigator know where international waters end? Is the explanation in this article sound? Or are lips once again moving?
Have not read the report but it is probably a base line problem, where do you measure the distance to the territorial waters from? The report I read in the paper said the crews of the vessels were not given sufficient information to be able to ascertain where the territorial limits were.

We not only created this problem for ourselves when the last government decided to show "compassion" and mucked about with a system which did not need fixing we also created a serious problem for our Indonesian neighbors. We done it, we should fix it and if we done wrong whilst fixing it explain why and apologize then get on with the job.

The so called Greens are a menace to democracy and I for one will be glad when they finally go the way of that other ratbag mob the Democrats.
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Old 24-02-2014, 03:08   #247
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Well glad to see that a 'government appointed' legal expert has cleared the two board members of any conflict of interest in regards to any expansion of Abbott Point.

Amazing what results you can get when your paying good money for a given result...
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Old 27-02-2014, 00:45   #248
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Looks like the Abbot Point expansion is loosing its viability:

“Companies are bailing on Abbot Point thick and fast,” Senator Waters said. “Lend Lease is just the latest, with BHP and Rio Tinto also getting out recently.

“With the coal price dropping and China opting for renewable energy instead, coal ports and coal mines are becoming as toxic to investors as they are
to the Reef itself."

Abbot Point: Environmentalists applaud as Lend Lease withdraws from port project
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Old 27-02-2014, 04:12   #249
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Do you think its something we said!!
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Old 27-02-2014, 04:53   #250
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Demand dropped or they became greenies?

C'mon, the question is laughable!
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Old 27-02-2014, 04:56   #251
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

The Capex cliff is here...
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Old 27-02-2014, 08:20   #252
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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The Capex cliff is here...


This was apparently predicted for now, from as far back as 2012. This is why it's inexplicable to me that advanced economies like Oz, the US, Canada etc have been betting the farms on resource extraction... which is ultimately reliant on relentless Chinese demand... which shows signs of becoming not relentless.

Next quarter is more important than next year or next decade, I guess. No doubt a platoon of CEOs will now leap from penthouse boardrooms as they shrug and deploy their Golden parachutes. Sorry shareholders, sorry workers... buh-bye.
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Old 24-03-2014, 22:32   #253
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Here in Western Australia we have a rare opportunity to re-cast our votes (for our Australian Senators), as the previous poll was struck down due to votes missing on recount. Where else do cruisers have the opportunity to vote according to their marine interests as we do here in WA, with candidates on offer from parties such as
  • Pirates Party (not real pirates)
  • Australian Sports Party (who won a Senatorial spot in the first count)
  • Shooters and Fishers Party
  • Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party
  • Outdoor Recreation Party, and even
  • Sex Party
Along with 28 other groups and parties.


Despite it's complexities, our system of preferential voting means we never have to 'waste a vote' to vote our true choice, as each party publicly advertises how it will distribute it's preferences to other parties/candidates if their own candidate does not aquire enough votes to capture one of the six Senate seats. So even if your candidate losses, you can know where your votes are really going (if you vote 'above the line' by party), or take matters into your own hands by voting your own detailed preferences 'below the line.'



To find out how your preferred party candidates will distribute their preferences in the event they do not win, you can visit


Group Voting Tickets (Senate preference flows) for Western Australia (WA), 2014 WA Senate election - Australian Electoral Commission


This page provides a PDF as well as spreadsheet to help get a grasp of which parties support other parties and candidates by their assigned preferences.
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