Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-02-2014, 17:16   #196
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
You sure about that? As far as I was aware unlike overseas growers, no subsidies paid, other than flood and similar natural disaster relief.
Correct Factor.

Both svseachange and Barra are well off target and behind the times and quoting info on cane farmers that is 30 years out of date. Also been diving the GBR and Coral Sea since 1970.

I am currently a canefarmer for last 40 years until I can trade my farm in on a catamaran (ASAP if not earlier) to start cruising.

Australia is possibly only sugar industry in world without any subsidies what so ever. There was a relative small tarriff that was removed some time around 30 years ago. We currently export sugar to Korea at 38% tariff which is similar to the assistance the USA industry receives. The new free trade agreement announced this week with Korea means the tariff of 38 % will be gradually reduced over some 15 years hardly a level playing field. Also similar with Japan and China who import sugar from us.

The whole of the Queensland sugar industry with the exception of the Burdekin district uses green cane harvesting and zero tillage in ratoon crops which is a significant and massive change in practise since your experience with the industry in the past drastically reducing the runoff into the GBReef lagoon.

If any of you know the Cairns area will know that the sugar cane fields between Redlynch at the back of Cairns south beyond Edmonton have been replaced by housing and golf courses. If there is any change to the GBR in that area it is by the increases to housing and tourism visits to reef not by cane farms that have significantly reduced in area and use nowdays greatly improved farm practices during the last 30-40 years.

Don't know too many of the 4000 remaining canegrowers that are swanning about in million dollar mansions these days unless they are part time cane farmers working at the coal mines. Many these days have 15 year old 4x4's like mine.

Cheers
__________________

__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2014, 18:37   #197
Registered User
 
svseachange's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: East Coast of Australia
Boat: Custom Steel 43 ft
Posts: 781
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Australia is possibly only sugar industry in world without any subsidies what so ever.
Well that is not exactly true. Barra was specific in his criticism of the historic subsidies. I was specific in my criticism of the Burdekin project.

I don't know anything about Cairn's cane farmers. Like most farmers they are probably honest, hardworking fellas. But I do know the Burdekin project would never have happened without massive government support.

Sure it happened 20 years ago, but it is still relevant (to cruising sailors) because of the continuing damage done by that project to the Qld coast. See my above link for details.
__________________

__________________
svseachange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2014, 18:42   #198
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
You sure about that? As far as I was aware unlike overseas growers, no subsidies paid, other than flood and similar natural disaster relief.
yep im sure. not subsidies per say but years of handouts and tax breaks to help cane farmers "transition" due to lower international prices (sound familiar?)
__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2014, 18:45   #199
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Correct Factor.

Both svseachange and Barra are well off target and behind the times and quoting info on cane farmers that is 30 years out of date. Also been diving the GBR and Coral Sea since 1970.

I am currently a canefarmer for last 40 years until I can trade my farm in on a catamaran (ASAP if not earlier) to start cruising.

Australia is possibly only sugar industry in world without any subsidies what so ever. There was a relative small tarriff that was removed some time around 30 years ago. We currently export sugar to Korea at 38% tariff which is similar to the assistance the USA industry receives. The new free trade agreement announced this week with Korea means the tariff of 38 % will be gradually reduced over some 15 years hardly a level playing field. Also similar with Japan and China who import sugar from us.

The whole of the Queensland sugar industry with the exception of the Burdekin district uses green cane harvesting and zero tillage in ratoon crops which is a significant and massive change in practise since your experience with the industry in the past drastically reducing the runoff into the GBReef lagoon.

If any of you know the Cairns area will know that the sugar cane fields between Redlynch at the back of Cairns south beyond Edmonton have been replaced by housing and golf courses. If there is any change to the GBR in that area it is by the increases to housing and tourism visits to reef not by cane farms that have significantly reduced in area and use nowdays greatly improved farm practices during the last 30-40 years.

Don't know too many of the 4000 remaining canegrowers that are swanning about in million dollar mansions these days unless they are part time cane farmers working at the coal mines. Many these days have 15 year old 4x4's like mine.

Cheers
YAWN

maybe the ones left are doing it tougher now but last time i was in FNQ the beachfront mansions were loaded with ex cane growers that had cashed out very handsomely and with taxpayers help
__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2014, 21:18   #200
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,086
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

The thing I find most intriguing about this debate is that some of the loudest "NO" voices here own boats that couldn't get into most harbours/ marinas etc with out dredging. But apparently thats all right.

As for you downunder, what would you know
__________________
Factor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2014, 21:34   #201
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

The canegrowers are a very vocal lot and the squeaky wheel gets the oil as we all know. No subsidies? How about the $100million ethanol subsidy? estimated cost $500,000 plus per job - makes the car workers look like beggars....
__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2014, 21:50   #202
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 2,737
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post
The canegrowers are a very vocal lot and the squeaky wheel gets the oil as we all know. No subsidies? How about the $100million ethanol subsidy? estimated cost $500,000 plus per job - makes the car workers look like beggars....
Ahem....

Sugar is used in approx 1/7th of ethanol production in Australia. The rest is grain starch and sorghum.
__________________
Reefmagnet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2014, 23:46   #203
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: 36' Cabo Rico Tiburon
Posts: 49
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Receiving Drought assistance, Flood assistance and more, in this “Land of drought and flooding rains” Sugar industry recipients of government largesse are well organised, highly vocal and are often located in key electoral seats.

More than any other agricultural industry in Australia, sugar production resembles a system of old-style agrarian socialism. Until comparatively recently Individual farm location, size and sugar output were determined on a collective basis by growers and mills, including even the varieties of cane that could be grown.

For nearly 100 years the sugar industry has enjoyed federal and state government assistance in the form of compulsory government acquisition of sugar, single desk (or monopoly) selling arrangements, import embargoes, quotas, tariffs, consumer levies, simple transfers and many other direct and indirect packages.

Just sayin'
__________________
A wise man learns by listening,
an average man learns by his experience,
a fool doesn't learn, he knows everything already
SoulJah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2014, 02:04   #204
Registered User
 
Capt Rottnest's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: FN QLD
Boat: Junk rig Schooner
Posts: 209
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Canada's excuse is that when the US sneezes, we catch a cold... Are the resource industries propping up the Australian economy as well?
You could say its killing the rest of the economy. Mining boom has sent the AUD skyrocketing and ruined competitiveness of manufacturing. The entire Auto industry is closing down in 2 years.
__________________
Cruising a junk blog
Capt Rottnest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2014, 02:51   #205
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Ahem....

Sugar is used in approx 1/7th of ethanol production in Australia. The rest is grain starch and sorghum.
Don't let facts get in the way of an argument.
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2014, 03:02   #206
Registered User
 
svseachange's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: East Coast of Australia
Boat: Custom Steel 43 ft
Posts: 781
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

66% of Australians disapprove of the new dumping at Abbot Point.

See:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludg...ort_140218.pdf
__________________
svseachange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2014, 03:34   #207
Moderator Emeritus
 
Coops's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northern NSW.Australia
Boat: Sunmaid 20, John Welsford Navigator
Posts: 9,550
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

That's if you believe manipulated figures that you get from these sources. Statistics are great things, for example, statistics show that 8.33% of the disciples betrayed. Still only one.

Coops.
__________________
When somebody told me that I was delusional, I almost fell off of my unicorn.
Coops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2014, 03:41   #208
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,086
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Quote:
Originally Posted by svseachange View Post
66% of Australians disapprove of the new dumping at Abbot Point.

See:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludg...ort_140218.pdf
No one asked me or anyone I know. And lets face it, Crikey.com is hardly an independent scientifically valid source.
__________________
Factor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2014, 03:45   #209
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 6,713
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Quote:
Originally Posted by svseachange View Post
66% of Australians disapprove of the new dumping at Abbot Point.

See:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludg...ort_140218.pdf

Not surprising given the MSM beatup that the topic has received.
__________________
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2014, 03:47   #210
Registered User
 
SimonV's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,316
Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

At the end of the day the the dredging will take place. The scare mongers will move on to another perceived issue, exaggerate and misrepresent the facts, hoodwink the gullible folks who consider themselves conservationists. But who rely completely on the very prossess they protest.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
Simon

https://svgoodonya.blogspot.com.au/
SimonV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Australia, Great Barrier Reef

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.