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Old 12-02-2014, 21:52   #166
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Shanedennis if you are saying GBRMPA is corrupted. And they are not a responsible authority, WOW. Big words, hope you got more than suspicions. Anyway sounds like Catalpa agrees with you, personally I was prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt. Still I have also seen Redbeck attitudes in both Qld and WA, anyway so how is it you reckon that vested interest in the state have been able to influence a Federal authority, don't think Clive could do it.
Could you also tell me another country that chooses not to unlock natural resource once green concerns have been answered.
Don't think Singapore is a good example. Last I heard they were trying to bury there rubbish under sea silt, they got a problem with the lid.

Shanedennis I don't necessary disagree with your sentiment, but right now environmentally aware people and loonies who believe in global warming are on the outer. Correct that perception and I think you would have a better show.
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Old 12-02-2014, 21:56   #167
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

No sense in beating a dead horse.

But there you have it.

Some Australians think they can only improve the standard of living through more digging at a permanent cost the environment.

Others think there are smarter ways to improve the standard of living and want to preserve the environment as much as practical

Right now, the party representing the first view is in power. The Queensland coast and hinterland is going to take a beating until the government changes.

Frankly I am surprised any sailors support another project that damages the coastline, especially after bearing witness to the results of other projects like the Burdekin irrigation project but that probably speaks to the partisan nature of this issue in Australia.
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Old 12-02-2014, 22:41   #168
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

> Frankly I am surprised any sailors support another project that damages the coastline

Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that moving a bit of the sea bottom a few kilometers further offshore will damage the coastline in any way?
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Old 13-02-2014, 00:28   #169
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

However, back to the main story. I am on the fence on it, though leaning slightly toward the govt. Every green group in the world clambers for airtime- its good for business- umm I mean donations. They would complain about tree planting if they could find a hook. So they love to use the word "dump" ,in this case, as it has wonderful negative connotations.

What none of the media have truly explained is what type of soils will be dredged. Are they simply moving soils that are being washed out to the reef regardless. Is it a mixture of river silt and sand (the most likely of course)?
Or is it toxic and full of depleted uranium and other nasties ( the least likely)?

However, they all agree that it is being "relocated" to sandy areas not on top of coral. One also has to remember that the GBR is the Twice the size of England and approximately the same as Germany. And for our American friends half the size of Texas. So we have established "its big". The area they are dredging is the size of about 5 football stadiums. I wonder how many football stadiums there are in Germany on how they pale to the overall size of the country itself.

The big one for me is that I doubt any Aussie govt, regardless of persuasion, would make an enviro decision these days without having spent millions on enviro studies.
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Old 13-02-2014, 01:42   #170
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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> Frankly I am surprised any sailors support another project that damages the coastline

Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that moving a bit of the sea bottom a few kilometers further offshore will damage the coastline in any way?
Nope. None at all. Heck Brisbane and Sydney dumped sewerage on their waterfront for generations. Maybe that's why my Grandad caught so many fish on Moreton Bay. So why not let them dump clean dirt and sand in some out if sight out of mind place?

No. I've just got a sense of history after witnessing first hand the Burdekin whitewash on the central Queensland coast. That was studied too, remember?

If you think the mining tycoons give one hoot about the GBR you are sorely mistaken. I doubt the mining unions give two hoots about it.

Queensland is ground zero for crony capitalism. In Queensland, if it walks like duck, talks like a duck then it very well might be a duck. This project sounds like mutton dressed up as lamb to me.

In any case, Australia does not need to be taking more stupid risks with it's envronment. When commodity prices crash we are going to want the tourists back.

Someone needs to stand up. Why not sailors? What happened to the clever country?
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Old 13-02-2014, 05:35   #171
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Neither Hay Point nor Abbot point are anywhere near any of the tourist destinations and we are far better to allow the expansion of existing developments than allow new ones.

Gladstone was a mess before they started the expansion and will no doubt stay that way for a long time.

Unlike the silt plumes from the rivers the relocated bottom material would have little chemical residues from agriculture and the one time dredging and relocation will be far less damaging than the silt pulses from the rivers every time there is heavy rain.

Mining projects damage very limited areas of land compared to farming if we wish to be environmentally responsible we should stop farming, particularly sugar farming which not only severely damages the natural environment but also has serious impacts upon human health.
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Old 13-02-2014, 05:48   #172
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Looks like we may have to kill all the whales to solve the great white problem.
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Old 13-02-2014, 06:07   #173
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

More bad science out of UWA. Correlation does not equal causation.
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Old 13-02-2014, 09:06   #174
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Mining projects damage very limited areas of land compared to farming if we wish to be environmentally responsible we should stop farming, particularly sugar farming which not only severely damages the natural environment but also has serious impacts upon human health.
I gotta agree with you there.

If I believed part of the mining money was going to be funnelled into a fund to repair the Burdekin then I would absolutely support it. That would be a good trade off.

If the money was going to help pay for proper NBN I would support it. A really good NBN would make it easier for us to recover from a commodity collapse.

But I am just not seeing the long term benefits out of the projects. Just fast bucks. An inflated currency that makes it easier for us to buy US boats and take vacations in Bali. An overheated housing market.

Until I see tangible long term benefits, real trade offs, I will not supporting any further projects that harm our environment. Doing so just feels silly and short sighted.
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Old 13-02-2014, 11:37   #175
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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the one time dredging and relocation
Dredging is very seldom 'one-time'. Just sayin'.
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Old 16-02-2014, 18:40   #176
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Originally Posted by svseachange View Post
No sense in beating a dead horse.

But there you have it.

Some Australians think they can only improve the standard of living through more digging at a permanent cost the environment.
Must be an east coast thing, tell a west aussie that and he'll say, So?
Over here mining has been accepted as normal business for over a century.
But we are mining areas which had very little value - like the red hot Pilbara.

Quote:
Others think there are smarter ways to improve the standard of living and want to preserve the environment as much as practical

Right now, the party representing the first view is in power. The Queensland coast and hinterland is going to take a beating until the government changes.

Frankly I am surprised any sailors support another project that damages the coastline, especially after bearing witness to the results of other projects like the Burdekin irrigation project but that probably speaks to the partisan nature of this issue in Australia.
? Sailors love having somewhere to park their boats. That means ports and marinas, on the coastline. Looking at what's happening at Gladstone, sediment going nowhere near the reef, I don't understand what the eastern staters are on about...
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Old 16-02-2014, 19:27   #177
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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I don't understand what the eastern staters are on about...
Not quite so...Grandma's Dad drove livestock from Freemantle to the Kimberley after he retired as a Freemantle customs officer... my Grandma was a nurse Broome... her sister and nurse died in Derby at 30... my grandfather was an early Qantas pilot who flew the Port Headland to Daley Waters mail run... crashed three times...and I worked in the Kimberley as a young man... my grandma used to be proud becuase "helped build the country". We used to think it was hilarious that the construction workers in Perth stopped work whem the temp topped 37.5 C. You are not from Perth are you?!?

No, you can't shut down the debate that easily. I've seen the Fitzroy River in flood. I've spent a wet season in Wyndham. I've kissed a girl on Cable Beach. Love the Kimberley. God's country and part of my heritage.

I just don't think a fast buck or putting more $$$ in Gina's pockets is worth anymore environmental destruction unless there is a real clear long term benefit. No, I don't think Perth's ridiculous property boom is a long term benefit. Maybe that is OK for the fast buck people in Perth but it is not OK for me.


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Old 16-02-2014, 19:43   #178
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

The problem with your arguments as i see it seachange is that you've made your living helping to destroy the environment as you say. Now your sitting on your boat and want others to stop making a living so you can enjoy the environment in retirement??? Sorry but thats just selfish mate.

like someone said earlier only way to stop this process of digging stuff up and turning it into new stuff is to stop having babies and that aint gonna happen anytime soon so in the mean time the task is to minimise the environmental impact of the economic activity at hand and in this case at least they seem to have got the balance right.

In fact Australia I would argue is at the leading edge of the the environmental impact study business and this dredging approval is a case in point if you care to look at the facts of it (though many on this post are obviously content not to)
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Old 16-02-2014, 19:55   #179
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

If you want to read about the damage we are doing to GBR see:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26183209

That one makes me a little sick because I was peronally involved in the expansion of the sugar cane industry south of Townsville.

Hopefully the west coasters can learn something from the east coasters. There is always talk of damming the mighty Fitzroy River. That could mess up the north west coast even more completely.
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Old 16-02-2014, 19:56   #180
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Others think there are smarter ways to improve the standard of living and want to preserve the environment as much as practical
But can never provide examples.
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