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Old 12-02-2014, 15:41   #151
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Gord, There have been plenty of studies which have proved the effects to be minor and insignificant compared to natural processes.
The trouble is there have been sedimentation studies in places like Chesapeake where there is little tidal change and lots of fresh water and these studies have shown dramatic affects.
The greenie ignorance and paranoia is that they think the ecology in all sites are similar.
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Old 12-02-2014, 15:53   #152
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Gord, We have a responsible authority that determines these things for us.

Home - GBRMPA
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Old 12-02-2014, 16:34   #153
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
I didn’t express an (inexpert) opinion on this proposed project;
I never said that you did

Quote:
If you have evidence that there is no/little/accepatable risk associated with this project, then present it; but (I’m certain) it won’t be “simple”.
North QLD Bulk Port website From their you can go to and downloadAbbot Point Cumulative Impact Assessment Baseline Technical Reports - including 3D dredge plume modelling

There is also Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authorities - Abbot Point capital dredging project with various links and studies showing why approval was given.

Taking into account how stringent the above authority has been on various activities the low impact private boater is allowed to do in the reef area I have no reason to doubt that they would be equally efficacious in this study and I seriously doubt approval was given lightly.
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Old 12-02-2014, 18:25   #154
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

The bottom line is Australia has chosen mining money over protection of it's environment again because mining pays more than tourism.

Australia has a history of doing this so it should be no surprise to anybody. With conservative state and federal governments the Queensland environment is going to take a back seat for a while.

Visitors to Australia should be under no illusion, the environment takes a back seat to the mighty dollar. It has always been that way. California is more serious about protecting it's environment. Save money and go to Monterey instead.

Don't let the few million spent on tourism ads fool you. They are lip service to a tourism industry that has been brought to it's knees by a mining boom inflated currency.

The horse has bolted. Abbott Point may one day be another Gladstone. Anyone with a sense of history and inertia can see that.
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Old 12-02-2014, 18:35   #155
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

The problem is still that every year along the coast there is more development, more dredging and more damage to our marine environment, all the time being told that there will be no environmental impact. After working in the shipping industry for the past 5 years, I can tell you now, if Cairns and Gladstone are anything to go by, there is a lot more than just mud being shifted.

And then as have said before, it gives other corporations and companies an excuse to lower their environmental standards and use the good ol saying "at least it's not as bad as...". There is just no end to it.

And GBRMPA would be scary if they actually did there job properly (think Clive Palmers tailing pond dumping, where no action is taken) instead of making recreational rules for the marine park more and more unworkable. Even the former head of GBRMPA can't see the logic in the authorities approval .

Kinds makes it hard to take them seriously when 3 of the board members are more interested in coal and mining development than actually representing the best interests of the authority that they are employed by.

Makes me wonder just how much they received in under the table payments to give approval....guess we will never know.
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Old 12-02-2014, 18:39   #156
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

The OP wondered how this was possible. It is simple. In Australia the governments in power hold an extraordinary amount of power.

Individual legislators rarely vote against the party line. There is no president, just a figurehead governer general. And believe it or not, the head of state is the Queen of England. The judiciary is relatively weak.

In Queensland there are few checks and balances. Just one house and whoever holds the majority can do whatever they want.

The means when both the Queensland and Australian federal government are conservative the environment plays second fiddle to the mighty dollar. A lot of damage is done to the envrionment during periods like this.
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Old 12-02-2014, 18:48   #157
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Originally Posted by shanedennis View Post
The bottom line is Australia has chosen mining money over protection of it's environment
Speaking of protecting the environment, are you doing your bit
Do you have a house using electricity (coal)
Do you have any product that used electricity in its manufacture?
Drive a car?
Eat any food that has used fertiliser that then washes into the oceans and out onto the GBR?
Do you use bottom paint
How about all the toxins dumped into the environment from the manufacture of resins used to make your boat?

You see, none of us are free of guilt, even you.

Quote:
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A lot of damage is done to the envrionment during periods like this.
Can you demonstrate what damage will be done with some evidence of that as support, not just tabloid media headlines?

Do you really think a small amount of virgin bottom silt is worse than the pesticide laden muck that flows out from the Burdekin every time they get decent rain in the area?
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Old 12-02-2014, 19:15   #158
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Sounds like a copout to me.

The question really is whether Australians, one of the wealthiest and healthiest populations in this planet needs to make more money. The question is do we value becoming even richer at the cost environment. Are we really that selfish and greedy?

If you live in a house and burn through twenty litres of petrol to get to your boat... that is your choice. I am a cruiser. I live on my boat. Very low envronmental impact. (ie: Wrong target, Matey.)
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Old 12-02-2014, 19:36   #159
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Do you really think a small amount of virgin bottom silt is worse than the pesticide laden muck that flows out from the Burdekin every time they get decent rain in the area?
Now we are getting somewhere.

See I worked on the the Burdekin River irrigation project in the 90's clearing and levelling land. Also worked on a banana farm in the area. You have not seen pesticide use until you have worked on a banana farm.

Back then people were saying that would have no impact as well. "It's only scrub" they would say.

I'm saying the money does not last. The damage us permanent. You open the door to a little and you get a lot.

Now people are saying "The impact of the Abbott Point project is less than the Burdekin". Now I know first hand we raped the Burdekin for another fast buck twenty years ago.

In twenty years, when the Abbott Point project has been expanded three times people will say some new project is not as bad.

Where does it stop?
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Old 12-02-2014, 20:16   #160
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parmenter View Post
Speaking of protecting the environment, are you doing your bit
Do you have a house using electricity (coal)
Do you have any product that used electricity in its manufacture?
Drive a car?
Eat any food that has used fertiliser that then washes into the oceans and out onto the GBR?
Do you use bottom paint
How about all the toxins dumped into the environment from the manufacture of resins used to make your boat?
[referee whistle]

Logical yellow card.

C'mon, this is ALWAYS a BS argument. Only Gandhi could win this this one.
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Old 12-02-2014, 20:17   #161
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

It's only a bunch of mud and sand. An underwater
desert so to speak.

Right. Just take a look at this video of a fish on
a sandy bottom:

It's too many people going for too few resources.
Stop having babies.
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Old 12-02-2014, 20:23   #162
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
It's too many people going for too few resources.
Stop having babies.
On the contrary, Australia has a plethora of resources. This is,about greed.
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Old 12-02-2014, 20:27   #163
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

Okay, if you say Australia has an
excessive amount of resources, where
would you recommend they find what they need without
destroying something?
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Old 12-02-2014, 20:46   #164
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

There is the rub. The question is should Australia just keep digging until it eventually runs out of things to dig up or should it do things a little smarter.

The mining industry has distorted the economy so much it hard to make a other export businesses work.

In short, the answer is Australia needs to look at smarter ways to make money. Our neighbor Singapore is very well off and they have no natural resources, we look a little shallow from their perspective.
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Old 12-02-2014, 21:17   #165
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Re: Australia approves dumping in Great Barrier reef

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Originally Posted by shanedennis View Post
In short, the answer is Australia needs to look at smarter ways to make money.
Examples?
Quote:
Our neighbor Singapore is very well off and they have no natural resources, we look a little shallow from their perspective.
Singapore has less than 1/4 the population and makes a lot of money off of the oil industry and refinement.
They also do extensive dredging , stealing of sand and reclamation work increasing their land size.
Two BIG environmental issues right there.

Singapore also has a lot of low paid workers making up around 1/3rd of the population to do a lot of the actual work. Foreign Workers Paid Only $2.25 an Hour! | The Real Singapore
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