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Old 30-12-2015, 14:22   #16
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

about three of those in the mid east would sure cool things down in a hurry about now.
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Old 30-12-2015, 14:24   #17
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

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I could get behind research on the REAL problem here, which is simply too many people on the planet.

Yet, people keep trying to adjust things so that we can "save" more of them, increase the numbers, and increase the problems caused by these numbers.

If we stopped spending money on disease and accident research, the "climate" issue would go away on it's own in a generation or two.

Why stop there, let's have another world war, that would eliminate at least 100 million souls, maybe a lot more. After all, it's people that are killing the planet, right? Lets kill all the people and then the planet will be pristine.
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Old 30-12-2015, 14:28   #18
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

100 million isn't enough. We need to trim a couple billion.

I don't agree with your approach to using war, though. That's totally unneccesary. We can accomplish the same effect by just letting the ones that are already dying get on with it.
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Old 30-12-2015, 14:40   #19
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

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I could get behind research on the REAL problem here, which is simply too many people on the planet.

Yet, people keep trying to adjust things so that we can "save" more of them, increase the numbers, and increase the problems caused by these numbers.

If we stopped spending money on disease and accident research, the "climate" issue would go away on it's own in a generation or two.
Not the failed claims of the 1970's Population Bomb again...sheesh...
The world isn't running out of resources...remember peak oil?
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Old 30-12-2015, 14:41   #20
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

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Why stop there, let's have another world war, that would eliminate at least 100 million souls, maybe a lot more. After all, it's people that are killing the planet, right? Lets kill all the people and then the planet will be pristine.
And you explained the heart of the Eco Imperialist Movement.
People are the problem and mother Gia will be better off with less of us.
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Old 30-12-2015, 14:54   #21
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

And not a single reply addressed the question: how will we adapt globally? I think it is scientifically obvious that even if we all--whole world--scaled back beyond anything that has been proposed--that the climate will continue to change. It seems obvious to me that between natural and human factors, this is not going to stop on a dime or in less than 100 years. I'm not picking sides, I am pointing to the obvious.

I agree with much or what has been said, but it all belongs on that other thread. Might as well close this thread, since there is no new discussion.

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And yes, Mike, living small is certainly the simplest way. Is it things or people that matter? Saves money for more important things, too.
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Old 30-12-2015, 15:06   #22
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

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And not a single reply addressed the question: how will we adapt globally?.
To the contrary...I think it was answered....We Won't.

Are you going to ask Joe Q Public to have a smaller house?
Use less heating oil in the NE?
Not have two gas guzzling cars?
Not buy **** they don't need?

Our 70% driven consumer "buy crap" economy would collapse and there would be riots in the street my friend if we actually made the changes needed to fight off this "Climate Change" boogie man, akin in many ways to the BS "War on Terror". They are both memes used to push the population in a direction the masterminds think it needs to go in, for both their political power and gain. You don't really think the USA couldn't destroy ISIS before noon tomorrow if they really wanted to...but it's more fun to arm them and have a Proxy war with Russia in Syria...I digress...

Likewise
If CO2 was really Destroying the World then the problem is the "Fix" will certainly destroy it also. That's the Rub isn't it...it either isn't destroying the world or we want it to for political gain and power.

Humanity will do what Humanity always does what Evolution has always done as well for that matter. We will react and "change" when we have absolutely No Choice. Just look at History to confirm this about Humanity. It's unrealistic to think otherwise.

Look the USA is Bankrupt..but do we fix it and stop the spending? Nope again it's too painful for the crack addict to stop, the system has to melt down and then the needed change will be forced upon the USA. Not advocateing for it or saying it will be fun...but you-all know it's true. Not enough people will give up their Free handouts/stuff to save the system, so it has to, must collapse to be fixed. This is the same way with MMGW, even if it IS True...that doesn't matter because man/humanity doesn't care, and history backs me up on this. Humanity won't care until their cable TV or internet goes out and they can't follow the latest from Kim Kardashian or see their latest episode of the Walking Dead.

A harsh view of the world you say?
No....more like a realistic one based on the whole of human History.
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Old 30-12-2015, 15:13   #23
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

Look up a world pollution map. We're not the world polluters but we are charged as if we are and believers take it as fact and listen to other world governments tell us what we should do. What a joke this hole thing has become.

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Old 30-12-2015, 15:20   #24
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

Sorry but Not a one of us is getting out of this mess alive, carbon tax or ACA be damned.......
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Old 30-12-2015, 15:31   #25
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

Humans will adapt fine. I live in the tropics. If I move to latitude 60 degrees the temps are way too cold and the air is way too dry. After a while, I'll be fine with it. Ditto for vice versa.

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Old 30-12-2015, 15:49   #26
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

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...And yes, Mike, living small is certainly the simplest way. Is it things or people that matter? Saves money for more important things, too.
To my view, the issue fundamentally comes down to unsustainable resource use. Humanity is simply using too much of the planet's finite resources. And here I'm not confining my comments to climate change alone. Arguably CC is not the most pressing issue facing human civilization, but it is critical b/c it impacts and exacerbates nearly all other issues.

Resource use fundamentally comes down to two foundational drivers: too many people, and too much used per capita.

The population side is largely a problem that is "over there." It is mostly focused in the under-developed and developing countries. In the developed world fertility rates are mostly below replacement levels, so this is not our problem. The good news is that on this front there is at least a sense of improvement happening. Global population is still growing, but the rate of growth has been slowing for some time. Predictions suggest global population should peak in the next 30 to 50 years, and then start to decline. So in a sense, "over there" is doing their part.

The other side of the equation is resource use per capita. Those of us in the rich industrialized countries of the world each use many time more of the planet's resources than those "over there." Our population of roughly 1/5th of the world uses many times more resources that the other 4/5ths combined. Exact numbers are open to interpretation and debate, but a survey of the available data shows it breaks down to roughly 17% consuming 80% of the world's resources, leaving almost 5 billion people to live on the remaining 20%.

Statoil - Energy Realities - Energy consumption

Social & Economic Injustice | World Centric

Ironically, while population numbers ("their" contribution to the problem) is coming under control, "our" part of the equation continues to get worse. Resource and energy use per capita continues to climb. The only time it has reversed has been during deep recessionary periods.

This is why I respond to your question by saying I am going sailing, in part, so I can use less. I can only control me, so I am doing my part in a small sailboat. If we in the rich countries all used less there would be a lot more for everyone else, there would be a lot less global conflict, and the planet's ecosystems would be less taxed.

Unfortunately, I think the likelihood that we will voluntarily reduce our resource use is exactly zero. So I guess on this point, THIRD and I actually agree.
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Old 30-12-2015, 15:51   #27
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

One thing is for sure, you can kiss your liberal democracies goodbye.

Won't be any more "all men are created equal" after we start creating our own men because we sure as hell won't create them to be equal.
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Old 30-12-2015, 16:25   #28
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

#3...

I'm heading over to a climate forum to see if anyone wants to talk about boats.
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Old 30-12-2015, 16:41   #29
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

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#3...

I'm heading over to a climate forum to see if anyone wants to talk about boats.
Sailboats are the ultimate cc escape vehicle. You can always go where the weather suits your clothes. ( there I said it sailboats now this is a boating thread )
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Old 30-12-2015, 16:42   #30
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Re: Assuming We Can't Stop Climate Change...

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And not a single reply addressed the question: how will we adapt globally? I think it is scientifically obvious that even if we all--whole world--scaled back beyond anything that has been proposed--that the climate will continue to change. It seems obvious to me that between natural and human factors, this is not going to stop on a dime or in less than 100 years. I'm not picking sides, I am pointing to the obvious.

I agree with much or what has been said, but it all belongs on that other thread. Might as well close this thread, since there is no new discussion.

---

And yes, Mike, living small is certainly the simplest way. Is it things or people that matter? Saves money for more important things, too.
Every failure/crisis/setback brings change. Change also ushers in opportunity and innovation. There is a lot of innovation happening in the world today to deal with this. All of this! CC, pollution, population, hunger, extreme weather patterns, etc. They just rarely make the headlines. I believe that most of the push back and stall is caused by peoples fear of change. We are entering a new revolution. Those that stand to loose money or power because of the shift, they push back against it, close themselves off from new ideas and possibilities. But change will happen regardless. Can't stop the tide.
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