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Old 06-01-2010, 16:48   #61
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Not a fan of whaling but I'd sware the sea shepherd ships are flying skull and crossbones.
Why the need to glamorize piracy in the name of whale conservation.
Not skull and crossbones. The skull, crook and trident is the Sea Shepherd logo. Perhaps the similarity is a little unfortunate if they want to be seen as the good guys though...

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Old 06-01-2010, 17:00   #62
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Umm, has nobody seen the effect of turning away from a likely collision in extremely close quarters??? The effect is invariably the smaller vessel collides with the stern as it swings away from the turn and is drawn into the negative pressure side of the propellors. A glancing blow maybe but the potential for very serious outcome. Very basic rule in man overboard situation on larger vessels, turn TOWARD the side that the person fell from.
To answer your first question, yes i have turned away from a sailboat and yes he bounced down the port side of us, he ended up with a few cracks in his hull, damaged rigging and out off pocket a fair few $$$, but he was still afloat, crew ok, and managed to make his own way to port...

And yes you are correct, MOB turn towards the side they went over, but i fail to see what a MOB has to do with this, MOB is a compleatly different situation that demands it's own actions...

The point i was making was if when he made his initial turn to starboard, if he had instead turned to port, the CPA would have increased, thus the likelyhood of collision would have decreased...

This is BASIC Colregs...
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Old 06-01-2010, 17:06   #63
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It is kind of hard to get your population to stop eating whales.

Just like it is hard for them to stop eating Tuna.

The Mercury levels in "all three" are astronomical.
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Old 06-01-2010, 17:19   #64
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I don't know much about either of the vessels involved in this incident, but I once went aboard the original Sea Sheppard when she was in UK waters. I have also watched the Discovery Channel's series Whale Wars, filmed aboard The Steve Irwin, and my conclusions were that any seamanship achieved was purely accidental. They have on occassions, even managed to capsize their own RIB while launching it!

While I admired their spirit, and willingness to actually do something about a subject they felt passionately about, their courage in taking a non ice-strengthened ex North Sea trawler into the Southern Ocean ice left me feeling that I might not be seeing these guys and gals again. But, trip after trip, they seem to survive and even get stronger.

While I am glad there were no serious injuries in this incident, I fear that the increasing agressiveness of The Sea Sheppard Society activities, and use of para-military equipment and manpower by The Japanese, may yet lead to a tragic conclusion.

Will this make the whales better off?
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Old 06-01-2010, 17:44   #65
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I remember that "Bat Boat...wasn't it a prototype to set a RTW record by going thru the waves.

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Old 06-01-2010, 17:49   #66
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Never take a knife to a gunfight.
Brilliant
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Old 06-01-2010, 18:03   #67
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Just weird:

1) the language the people on the (my guess) Sea Shepherd mother ship use " ... oh, f***, hahaha, f***, wow, oh f*** ..."

2) the first thing I saw on Sea Shepherd homesite when I clicked it today: a nasty Flash banner saying DONATE NOW,

3) the fast boat they used / lost: VERY BLING, (is it the same that tried to power round-world and killed some (?) Equadorian fishermen in the process?

4) the Japanese ship turning right, ramming another power driven vessel that seemed to be the privileged one), then turning left and not even stopping to use the water cannons ...

I hope the Japanese captain will end up in jail as he was clearly trying to kill the crew in that batman boat.

I hope some people will wake up and see what Sea Shepherd really is about, apart from trying to save the whales.

But, overall, very weird.
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Old 06-01-2010, 18:46   #68
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Playing chicken with a much larger vessel is not smart anytime. Where I sail tonnage rules. He who has the bigger boat wins almost every time.
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Old 06-01-2010, 18:47   #69
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I have watched that show.....as much as a lover of the environment as I have always been these guys are just way too wierd for me.

It is so unfortunate that environmental groups do one of two things....either get fruity-nuts.....or morph into a money making scam that takes collections to make people feel good that they are doing something.....

That's why the Feds have had to step in to "Save the Bay"
Because the CBF does nothing but press releases.
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Old 06-01-2010, 19:00   #70
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I have personally had to deal with greenies (greenpeace) at sea. I learned a lot. They have a very simple goal. Create chaos around your vessel, (they attempted to spray paint our sides) They tried to come up our ramp and almost rolled their rubber ducky. Make sure all the cameras are rolling, make it look like the "bad guys" are mean. That they are the "good guys" trying to stop the (legal) bad guys.
Believe me we had any number of heavy duty measures my crew wanted to take. I had to make sure we did no harm. These clowns were idiots at sea. Just total losers. Rebels looking for a cause. Using water hoses was the least we could do. These guys are such bad seaman, and handle a boat so poorly, it was pathetic.
But the footage made it on the 5 O Clock news in Seattle, only 4 hours later. Edited, polished, and beamed all over the world. Their website traffic explodes and the funds flow in. Last I heard it was 60 million in a year.
Oh by the way, the "cause" they were harassing us over was a belief we were "catching endless numbers of Stellar Sea Lions". Total garbage.
The Sea Lion fallacy had us going 120 miles north in the dead of winter in the Bearing Sea to "avoid" interaction with Sea loins.
The whole thing has been proving wrong. Nothing of the sort of truth. But I should avoid being political. I am just a poor dumb fisherman.
The Sea Shepard idiots got exactly what they wanted. I think in their own secret world they are slapping high five's big time! This is the ultimate. Big time media coverage. The cost of the boat lost will be covered many times over.
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Old 06-01-2010, 19:29   #71
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To answer your first question, yes i have turned away from a sailboat and yes he bounced down the port side of us, he ended up with a few cracks in his hull, damaged rigging and out off pocket a fair few $$$, but he was still afloat, crew ok, and managed to make his own way to port...

And yes you are correct, MOB turn towards the side they went over, but i fail to see what a MOB has to do with this, MOB is a compleatly different situation that demands it's own actions...

The point i was making was if when he made his initial turn to starboard, if he had instead turned to port, the CPA would have increased, thus the likelyhood of collision would have decreased...

This is BASIC Colregs...
I'm not much good at explaining things but I'll try again. The Sea Shepard boat is a wave piercing design with underwater appendages rendering it more likely to get under the hull of the larger vessel (where the props are). All vessels generate their own gravitational field and the larger the vessel the larger the effect against a smaller vessel so in this case with the size differential the smaller boat would not have received a glancing blow but would have been held harder and harder against the side until it reached the bilge curve near the propellors where negative pressure would have dragged it further under the hull (dependant of course on how the larger vessel was manuevering.) This effect is exacerbated by the stern moving out from the turn. When I was sitting my merchant tickets (years ago) we were always taught that if an obstruction was spotted close off the bow or if someone was seen falling overboard then ALWAYS steer toward them. When vessel are alongside each other, underway at sea the usual way to break contact after cargo transfer etc. is for the smaller vessel to take way off and the larger vessel to turn toward it to break the gravitational pull. What happens on smaller sailboats etc. cannot be compared with a vessel of this mass.
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Old 06-01-2010, 20:04   #72
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This is the first I have heard of a gravitational pull between two boats. How much would the force be Pete, if a sailboat pulled along side a oil tanker or a cruise ship? I have never seen a tender being pulled toward a ship, but then again I have not asked the captain of the tender or the ship if they were steering away from each other. I feel like Spock:
Fascinating.
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Old 06-01-2010, 20:18   #73
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I'm not much good at explaining things but I'll try again. The Sea Shepard boat is a wave piercing design with underwater appendages rendering it more likely to get under the hull of the larger vessel (where the props are). All vessels generate their own gravitational field and the larger the vessel the larger the effect against a smaller vessel so in this case with the size differential the smaller boat would not have received a glancing blow but would have been held harder and harder against the side until it reached the bilge curve near the propellors where negative pressure would have dragged it further under the hull (dependant of course on how the larger vessel was manuevering.) This effect is exacerbated by the stern moving out from the turn. When I was sitting my merchant tickets (years ago) we were always taught that if an obstruction was spotted close off the bow or if someone was seen falling overboard then ALWAYS steer toward them. When vessel are alongside each other, underway at sea the usual way to break contact after cargo transfer etc. is for the smaller vessel to take way off and the larger vessel to turn toward it to break the gravitational pull. What happens on smaller sailboats etc. cannot be compared with a vessel of this mass.
We are not talking, or at least i'm not, doing destroyer turns under full power here, 10 deg to port or so is not going to throw the stern into anyone, and if he did this when he initialy went to stbd he would have been well clear, why can't you see this....????

He could have maintained course, and while it may have been close, they would not have hit, although having said that, if the Ady Gil was determind to put himself under the bow then there is not much the whaler could do...

Remember we are talking about this situation and not some hypothetical, he had plenty of sea room to maneuver, even taking way off...

And seen as you have mentioned you credentials i will do the same, i am currently a Ship's Master (unlimited) and have been for 22 years....

And in all my years at sea i have never heard of you must "ALWAYS" in the context you have put, the only way i know is you will "ALWAYS" do what you can to reduce the risk of collision, which obviously in this instance a course alteration towards the Ady Gil was wrong, as the results prove...
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Old 06-01-2010, 20:28   #74
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It is kind of hard to get your population to stop eating whales.

Just like it is hard for them to stop eating Tuna.

The Mercury levels in "all three" are astronomical.

Speaking of which

Holy mackerel! 513-pound giant bluefin tuna reels in $177,000 at market in Japan
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Old 06-01-2010, 20:46   #75
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This is the first I have heard of a gravitational pull between two boats. How much would the force be Pete, if a sailboat pulled along side a oil tanker or a cruise ship? I have never seen a tender being pulled toward a ship, but then again I have not asked the captain of the tender or the ship if they were steering away from each other. I feel like Spock:
Fascinating.
I'm guessing Pete's referring to hydrodynamic forces, not gravitational... Sure the faster flowing water between two boats that are parallel and already close together will tend to draw them together. But that assumes at least one of the vessels is under way (or anchored in a current), and also that other forces don't intervene, such as bow or stern waves, to push the vessels apart again - just ask Jessica Watson...
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