Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-08-2014, 04:19   #91
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zednotzee View Post
My issue with the Dekker, Watson, & Sunderland trips is not whether they were capable or not, it's whether they were aware of the risks- I mean really aware. Several scientific studies have shown that even into our 20's, teenagers are terrible at judging risk. I'd be surprised if even 5% of teenagers are really aware of their own mortality.

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
This taking of risk is also what builds into such good skill sets with young people. Taking 'risks' is not always so bad. Though there are those that seem to take it too far. Get a load of this hitting the rounds this week.

Hong Kong Dangerous – teens take selfies on top of skyscraper | Metro News
__________________

__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2014, 04:20   #92
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,331
Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

WRT to Jessica Watson's "round the world" and subjective definitions of the same, I guess no one here is going change their opinion so I'll not try .

However I'm definitely in the camp of "she circumnavigated"

And for the nay-sayers, I am wondering if you would feel the same way if you had followed in her wake.
__________________

__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2014, 07:58   #93
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: Cal 29
Posts: 3,882
pirate Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedsherrin View Post
This taking of risk is also what builds into such good skill sets with young people. Taking 'risks' is not always so bad. Though there are those that seem to take it too far. Get a load of this hitting the rounds this week. ...
Hey Ted, I read your earlier post and it just seemed to me you're looking to argue anything you can find to argue about including my use of a verb. Must be a slow news day wherever you are.

This thread does highlight the truly international membership of CF. There are no world standards to apply. There are exceptional people among us, chronological age be damned. I'm willing to grant that all these great young sailors, successful or not, are exceptional individuals for whom my personal beliefs do not apply.

Many cultures have different requirements for maturity and advancing from childhood to adulthood: killing a lion, turning 12, a significant journey, puberty, getting laid, killing a stranger in a senseless drive by shooting, making yer bones ... whatever it happens to be. So who am I to think I am right? My children did not present this decision to me, thankfully. I stand corrected. (My kids are still mad at me for sending them to Outward Bound and forcing piano lessons on 'em.)

I haven't read a detailed account of her voyage so maybe there are things I don't know but rounding the capes puts Watson with the biggest names in sailing history imo. Res ipsa loquitur.



That ought to start an argument!
__________________
Blue Crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2014, 08:14   #94
Senior Cruiser
 
Scot McPherson's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Shoreline, CT and Portmouth Harbor
Boat: Standfast 33, building a 65 ft Wooden Schooner
Posts: 631
Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

I think the nay Sayers here are just pissed a young teenaged girl did what they don't have the cojones to do. I mean really, her official start point was st martiin right?

Well to get there she started sailing from the Netherlands....then when her official voyage was over she sailed on to New Zealand.

Get over it, she sailed WELL past round the world.
__________________
Captain Scot, 100 Ton Master, w/Sailing and Towing
Daring Kids to be Exceptional
http://americanseafarers.us
Scot McPherson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2014, 08:54   #95
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

My point is it takes a death of a record attempter to have the 'rules' changed.

And heres the classic example in being the youngest to fly across the USA which got down to a 7 year old who died with her father when they took off into bad weather to meet a media engagement. People say she wouldnt have been flying but her dad, even though that would have been cheating. But they both still died.



So after her death the USA changed the flight rules to stop it. But no one changed the flight rules for around the world flights by ever decreasing aged children.
Yes, they would have been banned from flying into Australia... but they could just chose routes taking them through countries where there is no law about it. IN the case in hand of the deaths in Samoa, their route was Indianapolis, Indiana, where they lived, to Greenland, Cairo, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and finally to the islands of America Samoa.

Whether sailing, flying, climbing Mt Everest (9 year old child just been banned from climbing Mt E!) or whatever, people will always try to get into the Guinness book of records (isnt that a beer?) - I was in the World Record Most People Hoola-Hooping attempt of 1969... I think we failed when only 100 kids turned up in the toyshop carpark only half of us could afford Hoola Hoops

I have nothing against people doing things of their OWN volition but I think the Fame Game Media - Wanna Be A Star - Next Top Model - Be A Real Princess - etc has drugged many people.
I know 'media'. I have worked in it for my whole life. I know what an insidious thing it can be when you put a camera or chance of fame in front of a child or parent. Why do normal people break down crying on TV so much? Because a TV camera is a truth drug for emotions. And the TV people know it. Just shove a TV camera in their face and ask them after the death of their child how they feel. Or ask them if 'justice' will ever bring their child back. Of course it won't, but people have it ingrained into them now what to say, and the saying in has to put a tear in the eye of the bereaved and thats what the TV crew wants and the camera picks up.

I know how reality TV works, I know how sponsorships work, I know how charity can be derailed by some stunts (pour a bucket of ice over yourself and tell all your mates to do the same).

Thats why I hate all these age record attemps. If someone sails because of their OWN volition then thats fine. But do it yourself without the media poison. I think Laura Dekker did it for herself. Yes, the others may have gone round but so could a 5 year old go round the Antarctic in one ocean in a drone boat.

If one does things for themselves without the urging of others and without the eye on an irrelevance record etc, then that may well be fine.

Someone else wondered what Lara Dekkers boat Guppy is like. I have seen it close up and it looks fine. I have been on a few and they are good little boats, excellent boats. We crossed the Atlantic at about the same time... she beat me by a few days.





Mark
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2014, 10:22   #96
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedsherrin View Post
Yes, I accept your point when she was 'younger'. But did she buy little guppy? Her circumnavigation was almost two years, that's costly. The film doesn't answer her finances of course. And her mom had nothing to do with supporting her sailing according to the film.
When you say "little guppy" I guess you mean the Hurley 700 she bought? This was the boat she sailed to England and prior to that would constantly challenge herself and the boat by going out in ever increasing weather. She loved this boat, bought from her own work and intended to sail it around the world. She was heartbroken when the Dutch Government said for them to let her go it would have to be in a bigger boat. The Hurley was a late model boat, the Gin Fizz was a clapped out 30+ year old boat left on the hard by her previous owner. It was the cash she got for the Hurley that got her the Gin Fizz, and hundreds of hours of work on her and her dad's part to get it refit and seaworthy.

She sailed with minimum sponsorship because she didn't want major sponsors telling her where to sail. She earned her way by giving presentations along the way and proceeds (advancements) from her future book deals that are now in print in Dutch and German, later this year in English. Her last presentation was in Toronto and she used her per diem to buy a used Subaru in New York so that she could camp across the US all the way to the west coast. Last I heard she is in the Redwoods in Northern California. She has held a number of jobs in NZ.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2014, 10:47   #97
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Someone else wondered what Lara Dekkers boat Guppy is like. I have seen it close up and it looks fine. I have been on a few and they are good little boats, excellent boats. We crossed the Atlantic at about the same time... she beat me by a few days.





Mark
Mark, your in good company. I couldn't help but notice while reading her blog entries she seems to take a fiendish delight in leaving on a leg with other boats and arriving first. A bit competitive isn't she?
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2014, 10:53   #98
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
A bit competitive isn't she?
Either that or the trade winds filled in for her. But I'll give it to her
To get wind I had to go south of, and east of Cape Verde Islands.
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2014, 11:02   #99
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Either that or the trade winds filled in for her. But I'll give it to her
To get wind I had to go south of, and east of Cape Verde Islands.
Well you have had the pleasure of meeting her while I have just read her blog and watched her presentations and movie. My take is she could care less about fame, she just loves to sail and explore. I also think she posses a 6th sense when it comes to sailing.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2014, 13:04   #100
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

I was at the dock (OK the bar at the dock) when she completed her trip and watched her with the media. Totally unaffected and totally untrained, and totally as shy and uncomfortable as unaffected girls of her age.

On the media point, and this is not comparing the people as people or sailors/fliers: Have a look at the three Google image searches, below, and compare the photos in general, and also look at subject, framing, background etc.

https://www.google.com/search?q=laur...w=1304&bih=683

https://www.google.com/search?q=jess...w=1304&bih=683

https://www.google.com/search?q=jess...w=1304&bih=683
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2014, 13:11   #101
Senior Cruiser
 
Scot McPherson's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Shoreline, CT and Portmouth Harbor
Boat: Standfast 33, building a 65 ft Wooden Schooner
Posts: 631
Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

Right....People were taking picture of Laura rather than taking picture for her.

Totally different flavor of photo sets.
__________________
Captain Scot, 100 Ton Master, w/Sailing and Towing
Daring Kids to be Exceptional
http://americanseafarers.us
Scot McPherson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2014, 15:55   #102
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
My point is it takes a death of a record attempter to have the 'rules' changed.

And heres the classic example in being the youngest to fly across the USA which got down to a 7 year old who died with her father when they took off into bad weather to meet a media engagement.
So after her death the USA changed the flight rules to stop it. But no one changed the flight rules for around the world flights by ever decreasing aged children.
Whether sailing, flying, climbing Mt Everest (9 year old child just been banned from climbing Mt E!) or whatever, people will always try to get into the Guinness book of records (isnt that a beer?) - I was in the World Record Most People Hoola-Hooping attempt of 1969... I think we failed when only 100 kids turned up in the toyshop carpark only half of us could afford Hoola Hoops

I have nothing against people doing things of their OWN volition but I think the Fame Game Media - Wanna Be A Star - Next Top Model - Be A Real Princess - etc has drugged many people.

I know how reality TV works, I know how sponsorships work, I know how charity can be derailed by some stunts (pour a bucket of ice over yourself and tell all your mates to do the same).

Thats why I hate all these age record attemps. If someone sails because of their OWN volition then thats fine. But do it yourself without the media poison. I think Laura Dekker did it for herself. Yes, the others may have gone round but so could a 5 year old go round the Antarctic in one ocean in a drone boat.

If one does things for themselves without the urging of others and without the eye on an irrelevance record etc, then that may well be fine.

Someone else wondered what Lara Dekkers boat Guppy is like. I have seen it close up and it looks fine. I have been on a few and they are good little boats, excellent boats. We crossed the Atlantic at about the same time... she beat me by a few days. Mark
Yes, I certainly get where your coming from and agree with you. I had to google about the 7 year old pilot as I'd not heard of that (and I'm a pilot). And if the pilot himself had survived he should have been charged with manslaughter for being so stupid. I'm not sure of the necessity of the law change, when the aviation authorities I would have thought could have stepped in and stopped it. And I also think there should be age limits on climbing Mt Everest.

And your insight into the Media is spot on. The manipulation of so called 'reality tv' shows are a good example of this occuring. The media seems to be able to manipulate and influence just about anything from politics to records.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2014, 16:05   #103
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
When you say "little guppy" I guess you mean the Hurley 700 she bought? This was the boat she sailed to England and prior to that would constantly challenge herself and the boat by going out in ever increasing weather. She loved this boat, bought from her own work and intended to sail it around the world. She was heartbroken when the Dutch Government said for them to let her go it would have to be in a bigger boat. The Hurley was a late model boat, the Gin Fizz was a clapped out 30+ year old boat left on the hard by her previous owner. It was the cash she got for the Hurley that got her the Gin Fizz, and hundreds of hours of work on her and her dad's part to get it refit and seaworthy.

She sailed with minimum sponsorship because she didn't want major sponsors telling her where to sail. She earned her way by giving presentations along the way and proceeds (advancements) from her future book deals that are now in print in Dutch and German, later this year in English. Her last presentation was in Toronto and she used her per diem to buy a used Subaru in New York so that she could camp across the US all the way to the west coast. Last I heard she is in the Redwoods in Northern California. She has held a number of jobs in NZ.
Well, she's certainly a clever girl then with raising the cash. The rest of us spend thousands just keeping the thing in a marina.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2014, 16:11   #104
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedsherrin View Post
Well, she's certainly a clever girl then with raising the cash. The rest of us spend thousands just keeping the thing in a marina.
There I think she had help from dad. Ever since she had the Hurley she had a slip next to her dad's boat. Her boat was her "room".

Guppy has had a free berth in NZ in trade for her giving youth presentations at the maritime museum.

I doubt she ever has to buy her own drinks at the local marina watering hole.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2014, 16:16   #105
Senior Cruiser
 
Scot McPherson's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Shoreline, CT and Portmouth Harbor
Boat: Standfast 33, building a 65 ft Wooden Schooner
Posts: 631
Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

God I wish some would decide what this thread is actually about. Shocking that a 10-13 year old girl would still be parentaly cared for.

No one said she was defacto emancipated
__________________

__________________
Captain Scot, 100 Ton Master, w/Sailing and Towing
Daring Kids to be Exceptional
http://americanseafarers.us
Scot McPherson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
record

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Antifoul. One Dies Another Is Born VirtualVagabond Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 24-02-2014 15:21
The Live Aboard Challange: Not looking like a Float Aboard SV THIRD DAY Liveaboard's Forum 37 10-12-2013 00:42
Youngest Circumnavigator sneuman Cruising News & Events 40 29-09-2009 18:13
Another Youngest Round GordMay General Sailing Forum 9 24-04-2009 21:56
Another RTW Record Attempt. 44'cruisingcat Multihull Sailboats 2 28-01-2008 23:02



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:10.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.