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Old 23-08-2014, 02:24   #61
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

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Well, I'm not aware that 'anyone, anywhere' disputes that she went 'all the way around', so good to see Ex-Calif, that you agree.
It is a mistake to infer that I agree.
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Old 23-08-2014, 02:33   #62
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

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It is a mistake to infer that I agree.
I was being facetious! Gee, don't you yanks get any of our Aussie humour?
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Old 23-08-2014, 17:49   #63
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

If she did not go "all the way around" the world, where did she go? Left heading east, came back from the west. She may not have fulfilled an arbitrary route around, set by some group of old men in the UK (I think), but she surely did sail around the world.

I wonder what they would have said if she had gotten past the Americas by way of the Northwest Passage rather than the Horn? Nahh, that's not sailing around the world, mate!

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Old 23-08-2014, 18:23   #64
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I have not followed any of these kid exploits because as the father of two lovely young gals, I cannot get my mind about letting your children take these risks. I think it is criminal parenting.

What if one or more of these girls had died at sea? Toss in young guys too. A tragic loss to a family and for what?

For nothing.
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Old 23-08-2014, 18:33   #65
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

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Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
I have not followed any of these kid exploits because as the father of two lovely young gals, I cannot get my mind about letting your children take these risks. I think it is criminal parenting.

What if one or more of these girls had died at sea? Toss in young guys too. A tragic loss to a family and for what?

For nothing.
Would this apply if one of your daughters exhibited better seamanship skills than yourself and you have circumnavigated? This is the case for Laura Dekker, her dad knew of her skill level.
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Old 23-08-2014, 18:33   #66
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

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Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
I have not followed any of these kid exploits because as the father of two lovely young gals, I cannot get my mind about letting your children take these risks. I think it is criminal parenting.

What if one or more of these girls had died at sea? Toss in young guys too. A tragic loss to a family and for what?

For nothing.
No, not "for nothing". For the chance to accomplish a difficult goal via very hard work and the learning of many useful skills. For the chance of realizing that the limits of conventional society are not absolute, and that one can rise above those limits. For the chance to grow beyond their years, to become a self reliant and confident person. "Nothing"? hell no, mate!

Risk? Sure there is risk, but the statistics so far are that none of these kids have come to harm. Meanwhile, thousands of American kids die or are maimed in traffic accidents every year. Do you let your kids drive? (Could you stop them?)

I do not support the idea of lionizing young people for being the youngest to do something. I do support the idea of encouraging them to undertake difficult goals, whatever their age.

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Old 23-08-2014, 18:40   #67
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

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No, not "for nothing". For the chance to accomplish a difficult goal via very hard work and the learning of many useful skills. For the chance of realizing that the limits of conventional society are not absolute, and that one can rise above those limits. For the chance to grow beyond their years, to become a self reliant and confident person. "Nothing"? hell no, mate!

Risk? Sure there is risk, but the statistics so far are that none of these kids have come to harm. Meanwhile, thousands of American kids die or are maimed in traffic accidents every year. Do you let your kids drive? (Could you stop them?)

I do not support the idea of lionizing young people for being the youngest to do something. I do support the idea of encouraging them to undertake difficult goals, whatever their age.

Jim
We are on the same page.
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Old 23-08-2014, 19:48   #68
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I just respectfully disagree fellas.

In fact I did lose my youngest at 15 in an auto accident. She'd be 17 now. I miss her but there's nothing much I could do or could have done about that outcome. But these are just stunts, fool's errands; and who really knows or cares: a couple thousand sailors around the world in a group of 7 billion with a B. So this matters because ...?

I'm in agreement that we should encourage our children to do all that you said Jim, but to lose a kid when you could have done something about it is just inexcusable. Most of us know all too well that you're not really grown up at 18 but that's the # we've put on it and so be it.

My daughter could do a backwards flip on the balance beam. That's a pretty big deal in my book. At 5'6" she could somehow spike a volleyball. She didn't lack any confidence.

Sweet dreams Jenni.
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Old 23-08-2014, 20:40   #69
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

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I just respectfully disagree fellas.

In fact I did lose my youngest at 15 in an auto accident. She'd be 17 now. I miss her but there's nothing much I could do or could have done about that outcome. But these are just stunts, fool's errands; and who really knows or cares: a couple thousand sailors around the world in a group of 7 billion with a B. So this matters because ...?

I'm in agreement that we should encourage our children to do all that you said Jim, but to lose a kid when you could have done something about it is just inexcusable. Most of us know all too well that you're not really grown up at 18 but that's the # we've put on it and so be it.

My daughter could do a backwards flip on the balance beam. That's a pretty big deal in my book. At 5'6" she could somehow spike a volleyball. She didn't lack any confidence.

Sweet dreams Jenni.
Many condolences for your loss. I could not imagine the pain.

However having been an independent person since around the age of 14 I completely understand that some younger people are more prepared than others.

I think the parents that live vicariously through their children or are motivated by fame and profit are close to criminal. That's exploitation.

But if a 15 year old who has been on the water since "birth" wants to go around the world I am not there to stop them. I am there to support them and help them do it as safely as possible.

Dekker did it right.

Regarding Jessica Watson. I think her manager even called it a "southern hemispherical rounding with a crossing of the equator."

I got no problems with that and it's a hell of an achievement.
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Old 23-08-2014, 22:24   #70
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

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She may not have fulfilled an arbitrary route around,
Jim
If I did a race but excluded all the bouys and just went straight to the finnish line would you present me with first prize in front of all the other racers?


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Old 23-08-2014, 23:59   #71
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

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If I did a race but excluded all the bouys and just went straight to the finnish line would you present me with first prize in front of all the other racers?
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Old 24-08-2014, 00:03   #72
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

The finnish line must be in Finland I presume.

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Old 24-08-2014, 00:14   #73
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

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I just respectfully disagree fellas.

In fact I did lose my youngest at 15 in an auto accident. She'd be 17 now. I miss her but there's nothing much I could do or could have done about that outcome. But these are just stunts, fool's errands; and who really knows or cares: a couple thousand sailors around the world in a group of 7 billion with a B. So this matters because ...?

I'm in agreement that we should encourage our children to do all that you said Jim, but to lose a kid when you could have done something about it is just inexcusable. Most of us know all too well that you're not really grown up at 18 but that's the # we've put on it and so be it.

My daughter could do a backwards flip on the balance beam. That's a pretty big deal in my book. At 5'6" she could somehow spike a volleyball. She didn't lack any confidence.

Sweet dreams Jenni.
My condolences.

Doing a 'back flip' is a pretty risky task. She's obviously quite skilled in her chosen sport. I wonder what sort of relationship you would have with your daughter if you stopped her from doing gymnastics because it was too dangerous? Despite having the skills, the practice, the ability?

I have three daughters and three sons. I would definitely not let any of them do what these world sailing kids have done. Because, none of them are sailers. None have the desire or the history, nor the skills.

But, if I had raised them on my boat, if I had introduced them to sailing at a young age and in doing so they had expressed the abilities and skills and then formulated a dream to do something out of the ordinary with their knowledge, then I would not stand in their way. I would have guided them, encouraged them with furthering their skills and experience and I would have let them go.

My parents would never had encouraged me as a child to do anything 'different' and with something I wanted to do at '12', squished it dead. To this day, and I'm 53, I've resented my fathers lack of support.

These parents are great supportive parents. Far from 'criminal' as you put it. I work in child protection, if you really think parents that support their children's aspirations are 'criminal' then I'd suggest your a bit naive and need to explore the real world of abusive criminal parents. Their polar apart.
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Old 24-08-2014, 01:21   #74
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

Life is risky. Little girls break their necks doing gymnastics. I know a guy in junior high who caught an elbow in the head playing basketball and suffered brain damage. Kids get abducted walking home from school. What are you gonna do? Keep them all in a cage til they are 18?

A rich, fulfilling life will include lots of risk-taking. All sorts of risks. When is someone mature enough to make cogent risk/reward assessments--for themselves? I know plenty of 40 year olds who aren't up to that task. I've known 12 year olds that were. It's too simplistic to say that it happens at a certain age and never before then. Sometimes it's irresponsible to allow your children to do risky things. Sometimes it's irresponsible not to. The particular individual in a particular context is everything. It's kind of silly to make judgments about particular parents or children we know next to squat about.
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Old 24-08-2014, 07:02   #75
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Like most, I choose to have an anonymous screen/web presence. Sometimes we will make reference to some aspect of our earlier lives but no anecdote defines any person who has worked a lifetime at many many things.

Along the way I was a school teacher, and that's often what I answer when someone asks one of those nosy pigeonhole questions. One of several assignments was at a facility for urban unwed mothers. Another was at an urban boys' correctional cage. The girls were every bit as mean and vicious as the boys. Some sort of physical ugliness was a daily occurrence. Reading these various comments and my possible naiveté regarding child rearing/abuse is just special in the Dana Carvey/ church lady/SNL fashion.

Some of you guys brag about your service time/exploits. I don't. I don't seek or need your approval. Some folks seem to have their entire self wrapped up in their occupations and insist we know all about it. I'd prefer not to be influenced by your presentation but rather make my own assessment of you and your information by your posts themselves. Many feel differently obviously.

But what really bugs me is when some of you opine or lecture or otherwise talk down to us on virtually any subject. Our group of cruisers are the achievers, the successful by and large, the educated; we have disposable income, know reality from reality tv, and don't need Fox News or MSNBC or you to do our thinking for us.

Well hell, here I am on a soapbox myself. Apologies.

Thanks for your condolences. I sure miss my baby girl. I'm glad I didn't have to make the kind of decisions those others parents did, and I'll concede Miss Dekker seems to be in a class by herself.

The absolute worst part about losing a talented capable child is the effects on the family. My life experiences have allowed me to weather Jen's death better than the others.

My ex, a real high dollar capable, analytical professional has now made a shrine of Jen's bedroom; nothing has been touched, drapes are drawn. A typical teenager, there's an open soft drink on the bookcase, baby-sitting money scattered about. I don't think that's healthy but my opinion hasn't been sought. The two twenty-somethings are in therapy, and Mrs Crab and I are very concerned about one of them.

That's an aspect you don't hear about often. And forget about being lost at sea. What if one of those young boys and girls had been beaten, gang-raped and left for dead? How does that decision look then? And for nothing, IMO.

I think it is irresponsible at best. YMMV . At any rate, I don't want to debate about it. I offered my opinion like everyone else, and mine certainly doesn't count for more than anyone else's.
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