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Old 22-08-2014, 01:51   #46
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challange Dies...

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Wild Eyes: The Abby Sunderland Story (2011) - IMDb

The contrast is striking. Abby was very dependent on the shore crew and unfortunately way too dependent (IMO) on electronics (autopilots) - I also got more of a sense that the "adventure" was more designed from the start to be a commercial venture rather than doing it for the love of sailing.
I just watched this. What a scary effort from all parties, start to finish. Blunderland shouldn't have been let out in a canoe on a pond, much less a solo circumnav effort.

At one point, Abby lost both her AP's, and spent 10 hours on the phone trying to fix them (this was WTF all in itself). The final fix was a FUSE.

There towards the end, she couldn't get the engine started and called home for a fix (again, serious WTF), and the fix was to engage the decompression lever.

Her land crew were worse. One, for letting her go out in the first place, and two...for being generally unhandy themselves. I mean, her "computer guy" couldn't even install an AIS. An AIS ffs, about as difficult to install as using an electric razor. Not to mention the constant problems with systems they installed.

Buncha boneheads.

Laura Dekker...complete opposite. An amazing kid, and an old salt all at the same time. Did she even have a sat phone on her trip?

My only problem with Dekker's Maidentrip movie was that is was a bit too much Rainbows and Unicorns. I would have liked to seen more coverage on the difficulties she encountered on her trip and how she overcame them vs smiling and dancing for the camera bit too much. More grit and knowledge, less fluff.
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Old 22-08-2014, 02:33   #47
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challange Dies...

Maybe a little too much "Rainbows and Unicorns" true but a lot more independent young lady.

I thought the dynamic between her and dad when he visited the boat was interesting. "I have to clean the boat because dad is coming."

You could see this young lady was cutting the parental ties - tough on the dad I expect.

She also may have been a bit luckier on weather.

Abby seemed to run into one problem after another. Which is ironic as she had a "Command Central" that almost rivaled Apollo 11 - LOL...

And of course Abby got late which put her in the Southern Ocean late and we all know how that turned out.

Getting back to topic - The pressure to "go" when you have lined up a bunch of sponsors and advertised what you are doing is tremendous. Now you have to balance safety against all these outside expectations.

Not a good place to be.
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Old 22-08-2014, 03:10   #48
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challange Dies...

Yeah, Dekker was luckier on weather, but she and her father made that luck by not trying a nonstop in the first place, and by planning routes and times around weather.
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Old 22-08-2014, 04:58   #49
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challange Dies...

I watched both their movies back to back the other day. Laura's first, then Abby's. Laura's movie made me appreciate the accomplishment. She was the smarter of the two and was more experienced with not only sailing but with the systems on her boat. It would have been nice to see her dealing with the bad times but I know that during the bad times, messing around with a camera is the last thing on your mind. I suppose she could have shaved her legs instead of prepping for an oncoming storm.

Abby's movie irritated me. the best description I can think of is Money and Entitlement. The attitude of the whole family rubbed me wrong. For her to even attempt the trip for what seemed to be fame and to one-up her brother without the basic knowledge of any of her systems was idiotic. Plus, she was on a boat she had no experience with. They bought it, threw it together, and sent her on her way. No surprise things started failing on the first leg.
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Old 22-08-2014, 06:17   #50
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challange Dies...

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Single engine plane. No redundancy. Sad end.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
More people die every year from engine failures in a twin than they do in a single.
Often engine failure in a twin is followed shortly thereafter by loss of control, loss of control accidents are often fatal, engine failures often are not.

One thing that surprised me in Abby's movie was there seemed to be no shakedown cruise? Was there one and I missed it?
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Old 22-08-2014, 09:53   #51
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challange Dies...

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More people die every year from engine failures in a twin than they do in a single.
Often engine failure in a twin is followed shortly thereafter by loss of control, loss of control accidents are often fatal, engine failures often are not.

One thing that surprised me in Abby's movie was there seemed to be no shakedown cruise? Was there one and I missed it?
I think they eluded to a 24 hour out and back from Marina Del Rey. Quite an accomplishment because she had to stay awake because there were ships out there -
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Old 22-08-2014, 11:58   #52
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challange Dies...

For the Laura Dekker fans, you will probably like this video, I did. Loved her quote "Crazy parents make for crazy kids". Also she was undefeated in all of her youth sailboat races with her dog Spot.

Youngest Cirvumnavigator to Sail Alone Around the World By Laura Dekker - ideacity
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Old 22-08-2014, 12:39   #53
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challange Dies...

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More people die every year from engine failures in a twin than they do in a single.
Often engine failure in a twin is followed shortly thereafter by loss of control, loss of control accidents are often fatal, engine failures often are not.
Very true. A twin losing an engine creates a whole series of problems for the pilot, and is extremely sensitive to any error on the part of the pilot. Loss of an engine typically will cost not half the power, but more like 80% of the reserve power, making climbing or even maintaining altitude a problem which is dangerous for pilot whose plane is at low altitudes. Since the pilot will have to compensate for the loss of an engine by applying opposite rudder, maintaining speed is critical to keep the aircraft from slowing down to the point where rudder control can no longer overcome the inherent yaw towards the dead engine; this would result in a loss of control as the aircraft will have a tendency to roll inverted into a spin, usually with fatal results. It would therefore be necessary, depending on plane loading and design, to keep the nose down to maintain speed and control, but this means the plane will have to descend. This puts the pilot in the same seat as the pilot of a single engine plane with engine failure who will have to descend anyways, and rather than providing redundancy, a twin engine plane actually has twice the potential for engine failure.
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Old 22-08-2014, 12:46   #54
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challange Dies...

Ad well as a higher speed, descent and stall speeds during the emergency landing.
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Old 22-08-2014, 13:20   #55
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challange Dies...

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Ad well as a higher speed, descent and stall speeds during the emergency landing.
Ah, if we could all fly like Bob Hoover.
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Old 22-08-2014, 16:03   #56
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challange Dies...

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Jessica Watson was another of the "youngest RTW" crowd
Not wishing to denigrate her achievements - what she did was undoubtedly remarkable, and she sure seems like a nice kid, but what she didn't do was sail around the world. There is quite a clear definition of what constitutes sailing around the world, and what she did wasn't it. But "youngest girl to sail 97.6% round the world" doesn't sound so good
Sorry to be blunt but 'bullshit'. Her achievement is not officially recognized due to her age, therefore she or anyone else under 18 have no need to follow those same ridiculous rules from a bunch of rich old snobs who determined what 'around the world' is. She travelled from the East coast Australia and returned there and crossed the equator doing so. That's 'around' the world. And no quoting the wssrcwwwsssrs nonsense will change that.
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Old 22-08-2014, 18:02   #57
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challange Dies...

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Sorry to be blunt but 'bullshit'. Her achievement is not officially recognized due to her age,
Sorry to your sorry but Weyalan is correct.
She didnt make it.

Rules are made for reasons... just like I can't say I have been up Mt Everest. I have only been 1,000 meters above Base Camp. She didnt do it like the rules stated and didn't go back the 150 miles to do so.

I have a mate who has done so. Did it. The whole "it". To suggest he could have cheated and got given the same "it" is preposterous. But then he is a ugly mature man instead of a sexy little girl with sponsorship.
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Old 22-08-2014, 22:36   #58
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challange Dies...

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Sorry to your sorry but Weyalan is correct.
She didnt make it.

Rules are made for reasons... just like I can't say I have been up Mt Everest. I have only been 1,000 meters above Base Camp. She didnt do it like the rules stated and didn't go back the 150 miles to do so.

I have a mate who has done so. Did it. The whole "it". To suggest he could have cheated and got given the same "it" is preposterous. But then he is a ugly mature man instead of a sexy little girl with sponsorship.
I don't think Everest or any other mountain is a very sensible illustration if your point. You have either been to the top or you havnt. Though, if you want to use that illustration then is the 'top' when you stand at the highest physical point or is it the highest land mass on the top. The highest mountain in Tasmania is Mt Ossa. On top of Mt Ossa is a bolder about a meter across. That bolder is physically higher than the land mass around it. Many don't venture out into the bolder because there is a dangerous drop on the other side. So if you don't climb onto that bolder, have you reached the top? If you climb Mount Everest but then don't take it in turns to walk the few meters on the top to the highest point, have you reached the top? I'm in the camp that says of course you have.

If Jessica Watson had sailed around the world according to the 'rules' as you put it, would she have been accepted by the ISF, as having 'sailed around the world'?

Well, not according to the ISF. No, not even if she followed the exact same route as Jesse Martin, she still would not have been recognized because according to their own statements, she was too young. So why now, claim she cheated because she was short by 150nm?

And I can't believe you brought her sex into it, let alone her presentation. Sad!
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Old 22-08-2014, 22:56   #59
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

Well...

If I ever got to the top of Everest, I would make damn sure I got to the very highest bit of dirt I could.

And if I was so inclined to climb Mt. Ossa, I'd venture onto that boulder.

And if I was going to circumnavigate (and claim it) I reckon I'd go the 150 miles to see it through.

To me this isn't about cheating or not cheating. This is about doing it or not doing it. It's not a grey area - You were at the highest point in the world or Tasmania, or you weren't. You either went "all the way around" or you didn't.

I don't chase records but if there is a body that says you have to cross the equator 3 times for it to count and I wanted to "claim" I had (according to that body), then guess what? I cross the equator 3 times.

I did sailplane racing and badging. There was a sealed barometer that made a trace of your altitude and a sealed camera one used to take pictures of your turning points. Guess what? If your photo showed you "inside" the triangle, it didn't count.
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Old 23-08-2014, 02:08   #60
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Re: Another "Youngest" Record Challenge Dies...

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This is about doing it or not doing it. It's not a grey area - You were at the highest point in the world or Tasmania, or you weren't. You either went "all the way around" or you didn't. .
Well, I'm not aware that 'anyone, anywhere' disputes that she went 'all the way around', so good to see Ex-Calif, that you agree.

And their most definitely "is" some grey area, even over Mt Everest or any other mountain. Everest pinnacle is not dead flat from what I hear and no one, anywhere realistically disputes someone's claim to having not climbed to the top of Everest because they were a few meters away from the highest technical point. Not that I've ever heard or read anyway.

If the world sailing authority would have recognized the achievements of young people like Jessica Watson, the I'd definitely say she needs to do exactly what the rules of that organization says. But when they refuse to acknowledge her doing so, even of she did everything they asked, then to hell with them. I think most people recognize her achievement as being the youngest person to sail 'around the world' and that's the important thing.
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