Sales / Use Tax enforcement on East Coast - Page 2

gettinthere · 30-10-2007, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnj

and we had to prove we registered the boat in another state

Are you saying the state of florida asked for proof of registration in another state?
If so, I would guess that florida was going to require you to register in their state if you hadn't proved you registered in RI. And they would have taxed you 6%.

I suspect it will be hard to not register in any state.

Del, RI & NH do not tax the sale of boats. Look into registering there. But if you are not a resident of the state you register in, there may be other complications. If you decide to become a resident of the registration state, then you get hit with income taxes! NH only taxes interest & dividends...

**Pblais** · 30-10-2007, 13:35

Quote:

Are you saying the state of Florida asked for proof of registration in another state?

Don't confuse registration with taxes. A US Documented Boat can never be state registered (it would be a federal crime to attempt to do so) so registration alone means absolutely nothing as far as taxes. Where the boat is and where you use it does mean far more.

In the case of FL you need to prove you left the state before the time period expires or it is assumed you owe the money. Dated receipts have generally been enough. It's a case where it is only because of how long the boat was in the state under your ownership that matters.

ssullivan · 30-10-2007, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pblais

Don't confuse registration with taxes. A US Documented Boat can never be state registered (it would be a federal crime to attempt to do so) so registration alone means absolutely nothing as far as taxes.

WHOA!!! I have never heard of this before. Paul is right about everything I've ever seen him post, which makes me nervous here. My home state has a provision for registering your federally documented vessel and demands state registration for federally documented vessels.

Does anyone know if this varies from state to state? My state REQUIRED me to commit a federal crime, based on what Paul as posted here.

Fishspearit · 30-10-2007, 18:05

Florida also requires you to register your Federally Documented boat in the state. If you keep it here your only other option is to pay 6% use tax every year. Well, that's what seems to be getting enforced, I don't know that it's the law.

**Pblais** · 30-10-2007, 20:10

Quote:

Florida also requires you to register your Federally Documented boat in the state.

It's not registration. Registration is to certify title. You can only do that in one place with the state or with the USCG. Many states have assorted taxes or stickers but it's not to register a title. Owing taxes has nothing to do with the title.

As for FL if the boat is there when the clock ticks down it won't matter where you register it or where you call home - you owe the tax money.

donradcliffe · 30-10-2007, 20:52

I subscribe to the 'keep moving' theory, and have never had to pay taxes on the big boat... its documented with a home port in California, but since I kept it out of Calif for a year I have a nice letter from them exempting it from use tax.

HOWEVER,
My dinghy was bought in Australia in 2001, and running it around the east coast US without a registration sticker is like waving red flags at bulls. Idecided to register itin Calif, but their form said I had to swear that the dinghy was IN Calif, so I put it off. I had no problems in Florida, SC or MD, but was finally pulled over in Rhode Island. Their attitude was that since the big boat was not foreign registered, the dinghy had to have registration in some state, and they were doing me a big favor by not fining me. Rhode Island registration was easy for a non-resident as long as the boat was in RI, but the guy behind the counter spent 20 minutes on the phone with the state tax man before giving up on sales tax.

gettinthere · 30-10-2007, 21:19

Already posted earlier on this thread, by Tao:

"IS A DOCUMENTED VESSEL EXEMPT FROM STATE JURISDICTION?

No, all documented vessels must comply with the laws of the state in which they are operated. The vessel's document must be shown to state law enforcement personnel upon their demand. States may require documented vessels to be registered (but not numbered) and to display state decals showing that they have complied with state requirements."

"STATES MAY REQUIRE DOCUMENTED VESSELS TO BE REGISTERED"

Fishspearit · 31-10-2007, 04:45

Quote:

It's not registration. Registration is to certify title. You can only do that in one place with the state or with the USCG

.
Pblais, Registration and certifying the title ARE two different things. Florida DOES require you to register your documented boat. But you are correct, you do not recertify the title if it is already documented. I think you have some confusion over the definition of registration. Everything is explained on this page from the state of FL
Facts For Florida Vessel Owners

cnj · 01-11-2007, 02:50

[quote=gettinthere;108385]Are you saying the state of florida asked for proof of registration in another state?
If so, I would guess that florida was going to require you to register in their state if you hadn't proved you registered in RI. And they would have taxed you 6%.

Yes, FL requires proof of registration in another state. My boat is Coast Guard Documented so technically you don't need state registration, but it was cheaper doing so to avoid paying FL (I also DO live in RI and not FL!)

hellosailor · 01-11-2007, 08:45

PB-
While motor vehicle titling is now normally tied to vehicle registration, bear in mind there are still plenty of pre-1972 boats, pre-HIN, and not all states tied the titling and registration processs together until perhaps the 90's. So, a state issueed motor vehicle title (boat or car) may or may not still be tied to the registration. I'm sure there are some odd things still out there.

Like California, where license plates are sold with the car, versus "most" states where the plates are never transferred to another owner. Or Florida--where you can only get one license plate, for the rear, and they won't even sell you one for the front if you ask for it!

I asked a clerk about this just yesterday, I said "so if I wanted to see who was about to hit me, before I was run over and unconcious, there's no way to do that, huh? I can only get the plate number while they're running away after?" We were both smiling at the time, she knew I was joking but the terribly oddity of their laws did strike her when seen that way.

Boats, cars, trains, planes....Render unto Caeser! He's just got too many guys with skirts and sharp swords, and the combination seems to keep them tempermental.<G>

Chief Engineer · 21-07-2008, 19:38

as there is no provision for "resetting" the clock in Maryland

Quote:

Originally Posted by sv_makai

It is not just the law enforcement folks checking the boats, in DC and VA (where there is annual property taxes) there are docks walkers who just use the time they stroll the docks to look for boats docked long term in an area and pass the info on.

In MD where our boat is docked you have 90 days to visit in the Bay before moving on. Some cruisers just go an spend some time in VA and then back up the Bay which resets the clock.

v.

Captain Bill · 26-09-2008, 10:49

Three years ago I bought a boat in Florida and brought it to North Carolina. I called up the state sales tax people and asked them how to go about paying sales tax in NC on a used boat. After they recovered from the shock of actually having someone call them to ask how to pay taxes as opposed to avoiding them they informed me that NC had no sales tax on used boats bought from an individual and that I could not pay sales tax in NC. This appears to be different than a used boat bought from a dealer or as the tax office described it "at retail". I was aware of the $1500 cap on boat sales tax in NC and thought it would be better than paying in Florida. I then found out that if I got the boat out of Florida within 90 Days I would not have to pay sales tax in Florida, but would be required to do so under the laws of NC. Since it was a used boat purchased from an individual I did not owe any NC tax. I did have to provide proof of my departure from the satae and could not return to Florida for at least 6 months without paying Florida Sales/use tax. Since I did not plan to return to Florida for at least a year that was no issue. The item in the discussion that concerns me is the concept that if I should decide to move to Florida I will have to pay the Sales/Use tax before I can register my boat in Florida. My boat is Documented and I clearly understand that I would not be titling my boat in Florida, simply paying the state registration tax and putting a sticker on my port side. I would not be getting numbers from the state as that would conflict with federal rules for documented vessels. From my reading of the Florida laws it would seem to me that if I was a resident of another state and owned the vessel in that state for more than 6 months I would not be required to pay Florida Sales/Use tax. Others seem to have a different opinion. I think my interpretation would make the most sense. Different states choose to raise revenues in different manners. For instance while NC has a low sales tax on new boats and none on used boats, but it has a 7-8% income tax on the money you earned to buy that boat. Florida does not have any income tax, but only sales/use taxes and registration fees. If My interpretation of the Florida is wrong, I'm going to start lobbying my legislature to pass a law collecting back income tax from people who move to NC from Florida. Also in NC we do pay property tax on boats at the same rate as we do on real estate. You can minimize these taxes by docking in a marina that is not in a city limits. I purposely chose a marina that was just outside of the city limits of New Bern, so I would only have to pay county taxes, not city as well. It worked for year 1, but in year 2 the city annexed the marina property. Because we were not land owners we were never informed of the public hearings on the matter. I paid that bill but before the next Jan. 1 rolled around I moved my boat to a marina clearly outside of any city limits.

hellosailor · 26-09-2008, 11:46

"From my reading of the Florida laws "
Yes, but why not call, email, or write directly to the officials in Florida and get a formal statement FROM THEM? They're easy to reach, and if they say "no tax" or "tax", the odds are that's what someone down there is going to try doing to you.

imagine2frolic · 26-09-2008, 12:22

hellosailor,

nahhhhhhh....that's too easy. I was asking a similiar question here, and got several different answers. Went down to the office, and asked some questions, and bingo.

You can avoid paying taxes legally, but legally is the only way to do it. Otherwise you will be paying a whole lot more than just the taxes.

In some states you can purchase out of the country, and keep the boat out the state for 6 months. Still you can at the same time register the boat in the same state. You will have to prove it was out for 6 months, but there will be no state taxes when you take the boat home.......BEST WISHES in keeping the taxes low, or zero.......i2f,,,,,,,pm me if u wush

hellosailor · 26-09-2008, 12:36

So FloriDUH! will let you skip the use taxes (often due if a resident buys a vehicle out of state) as long as the vehicle has been owned a paltry six months before you bring it IN state?? For sure?!

26-09-2008, 12:22	#29
imagine2frolic Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: N.E. Florida Boat: Simpson, Catamaran, 46ft. IMAGINE Posts: 2,119 Images: 112	hellosailor, nahhhhhhh....that's too easy. I was asking a similiar question here, and got several different answers. Went down to the office, and asked some questions, and bingo. You can avoid paying taxes legally, but legally is the only way to do it. Otherwise you will be paying a whole lot more than just the taxes. In some states you can purchase out of the country, and keep the boat out the state for 6 months. Still you can at the same time register the boat in the same state. You will have to prove it was out for 6 months, but there will be no state taxes when you take the boat home.......BEST WISHES in keeping the taxes low, or zero.......i2f,,,,,,,pm me if u wush __________________ BORROWED! No single one of us is as smart as all of us! SAILING is not always a slick magazine cover!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
best first aid training on east coast (maryland)?	schoonerdog	Health, Safety & Related Gear	6	20-12-2008 11:29
Available - East Coast transit/delivery crew available	Sunspot Baby	Crew Positions: Wanted & Available	1	04-11-2007 05:19
East to West Coast Transport?	Limpet	General Sailing Forum	5	12-05-2007 14:58
Australian East Coast Guide Book	Quincofish	The Library	1	11-11-2003 20:16

30-10-2007, 18:05	#19
Fishspearit Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: out to sea Boat: Westerly Posts: 402	Florida also requires you to register your Federally Documented boat in the state. If you keep it here your only other option is to pay 6% use tax every year. Well, that's what seems to be getting enforced, I don't know that it's the law.

30-10-2007, 20:52	#21
donradcliffe Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Heading south for the winter Boat: Beneteau First 456 Posts: 332	I subscribe to the 'keep moving' theory, and have never had to pay taxes on the big boat... its documented with a home port in California, but since I kept it out of Calif for a year I have a nice letter from them exempting it from use tax. HOWEVER, My dinghy was bought in Australia in 2001, and running it around the east coast US without a registration sticker is like waving red flags at bulls. Idecided to register itin Calif, but their form said I had to swear that the dinghy was IN Calif, so I put it off. I had no problems in Florida, SC or MD, but was finally pulled over in Rhode Island. Their attitude was that since the big boat was not foreign registered, the dinghy had to have registration in some state, and they were doing me a big favor by not fining me. Rhode Island registration was easy for a non-resident as long as the boat was in RI, but the guy behind the counter spent 20 minutes on the phone with the state tax man before giving up on sales tax.

30-10-2007, 21:19	#22
gettinthere Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 143	Already posted earlier on this thread, by Tao: "IS A DOCUMENTED VESSEL EXEMPT FROM STATE JURISDICTION? No, all documented vessels must comply with the laws of the state in which they are operated. The vessel's document must be shown to state law enforcement personnel upon their demand. States may require documented vessels to be registered (but not numbered) and to display state decals showing that they have complied with state requirements." "STATES MAY REQUIRE DOCUMENTED VESSELS TO BE REGISTERED"

01-11-2007, 02:50	#24
cnj Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Riverside, RI USA Boat: Fontain Pejot Tobago 35 Cat Alee Posts: 52	[quote=gettinthere;108385]Are you saying the state of florida asked for proof of registration in another state? If so, I would guess that florida was going to require you to register in their state if you hadn't proved you registered in RI. And they would have taxed you 6%. Yes, FL requires proof of registration in another state. My boat is Coast Guard Documented so technically you don't need state registration, but it was cheaper doing so to avoid paying FL (I also DO live in RI and not FL!)

01-11-2007, 08:45	#25
hellosailor Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,327	PB- While motor vehicle titling is now normally tied to vehicle registration, bear in mind there are still plenty of pre-1972 boats, pre-HIN, and not all states tied the titling and registration processs together until perhaps the 90's. So, a state issueed motor vehicle title (boat or car) may or may not still be tied to the registration. I'm sure there are some odd things still out there. Like California, where license plates are sold with the car, versus "most" states where the plates are never transferred to another owner. Or Florida--where you can only get one license plate, for the rear, and they won't even sell you one for the front if you ask for it! I asked a clerk about this just yesterday, I said "so if I wanted to see who was about to hit me, before I was run over and unconcious, there's no way to do that, huh? I can only get the plate number while they're running away after?" We were both smiling at the time, she knew I was joking but the terribly oddity of their laws did strike her when seen that way. Boats, cars, trains, planes....Render unto Caeser! He's just got too many guys with skirts and sharp swords, and the combination seems to keep them tempermental.<G>

26-09-2008, 10:49	#27
Captain Bill Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: North Carolina Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44, Spiraserpula Posts: 62	Three years ago I bought a boat in Florida and brought it to North Carolina. I called up the state sales tax people and asked them how to go about paying sales tax in NC on a used boat. After they recovered from the shock of actually having someone call them to ask how to pay taxes as opposed to avoiding them they informed me that NC had no sales tax on used boats bought from an individual and that I could not pay sales tax in NC. This appears to be different than a used boat bought from a dealer or as the tax office described it "at retail". I was aware of the $1500 cap on boat sales tax in NC and thought it would be better than paying in Florida. I then found out that if I got the boat out of Florida within 90 Days I would not have to pay sales tax in Florida, but would be required to do so under the laws of NC. Since it was a used boat purchased from an individual I did not owe any NC tax. I did have to provide proof of my departure from the satae and could not return to Florida for at least 6 months without paying Florida Sales/use tax. Since I did not plan to return to Florida for at least a year that was no issue. The item in the discussion that concerns me is the concept that if I should decide to move to Florida I will have to pay the Sales/Use tax before I can register my boat in Florida. My boat is Documented and I clearly understand that I would not be titling my boat in Florida, simply paying the state registration tax and putting a sticker on my port side. I would not be getting numbers from the state as that would conflict with federal rules for documented vessels. From my reading of the Florida laws it would seem to me that if I was a resident of another state and owned the vessel in that state for more than 6 months I would not be required to pay Florida Sales/Use tax. Others seem to have a different opinion. I think my interpretation would make the most sense. Different states choose to raise revenues in different manners. For instance while NC has a low sales tax on new boats and none on used boats, but it has a 7-8% income tax on the money you earned to buy that boat. Florida does not have any income tax, but only sales/use taxes and registration fees. If My interpretation of the Florida is wrong, I'm going to start lobbying my legislature to pass a law collecting back income tax from people who move to NC from Florida. Also in NC we do pay property tax on boats at the same rate as we do on real estate. You can minimize these taxes by docking in a marina that is not in a city limits. I purposely chose a marina that was just outside of the city limits of New Bern, so I would only have to pay county taxes, not city as well. It worked for year 1, but in year 2 the city annexed the marina property. Because we were not land owners we were never informed of the public hearings on the matter. I paid that bill but before the next Jan. 1 rolled around I moved my boat to a marina clearly outside of any city limits.

26-09-2008, 11:46	#28
hellosailor Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,327	"From my reading of the Florida laws " Yes, but why not call, email, or write directly to the officials in Florida and get a formal statement FROM THEM? They're easy to reach, and if they say "no tax" or "tax", the odds are that's what someone down there is going to try doing to you.

26-09-2008, 12:36	#30
hellosailor Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,327	So FloriDUH! will let you skip the use taxes (often due if a resident buys a vehicle out of state) as long as the vehicle has been owned a paltry six months before you bring it IN state?? For sure?!