Young People Cruising

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

In my view our societies need to understand that the function of a JOB in the rich industrialized world has little to do with productive labour. Its most important function is as a wealth redistribution mechanism. Viewed in this light, it should be easier to separate the need for productivity from the necessity to provide food and shelter to everyone.

Absolutely, have studied Piketty in detail, reread "Capital", some parts over 3x.

Another great recent take, different focus is "******** Jobs"

Good example is healthcare, to be tied to employment is a very inefficient premise.

Unfortunately decades of well funded and coordinated propaganda have turned the US mainstream political attitudes in favor of the oligarchy's interests and against those of the common people.

So practical solutions - a revamping of our whole political-economic structures - may well not be possible until after destructive physically violent social upheavals.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." — JFK

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Middle class has nearly disappeared, and they’ve mostly gone down the economic ladder, not up.

Yes most families who think they're still middle class, aren't really anymore.

Very few earning their income from work are actually middle class anymore, and

all but the wealthy are just one normal crisis away from financial disaster.

90% of jobs regained since the '08 crash are 1099 / part time / gig economy without predictability or benefits.

[Kenomac]

You guys can lament and place blame on income inequality all you want but, the actual decline in cruising is due to lack of interest. People today have other things to do that interest them more like... playing with their phones, computers and watching TV just to name three.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by dwedeking2

As I get older (I'm now 48) I'm starting to regret all the time I worked. I started working at a young age in a family business, and was only out of work for a total of 5 months in my life. If I had it to do over I think I'd work less and adventure more (work for a a few months to a year, then travel until the money ran out).

I wish there was more freedom to work globally, without out the restrictions that are now common if you move off the plantation you were born on.

I left the rat race at age 48 (not that I was ever really in it). But I’d been working towards this for more than a decade — in some ways all my life.

Bang on about the movement of labour — or LACK of movement I should say. It’s not by accident that all our international trade deals spend endless chapters focusing on the freedom of capital to move to wherever can bring in the biggest buck. But workers are highly restricted in their ability to move to maximize their benefits.

Originally Posted by john61ct

Absolutely, have studied Piketty in detail, reread "Capital", some parts over 3x.

Another great recent take, different focus is "******** Jobs"

I haven’t read this BS one. Added to my reading list … thanks .

Originally Posted by john61ct

Good example is healthcare, to be tied to employment is a very inefficient premise.

Unfortunately decades of well funded and coordinated propaganda have turned the US mainstream political attitudes in favor of the oligarchy's interests and against those of the common people.

So practical solutions - a revamping of our whole political-economic structures - may well not be possible until after destructive physically violent social upheavals.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." — JFK

I fear you are correct John.

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You guys can lament and place blame on income inequality all you want but, the actual decline in cruising is due to lack of interest. People today have other things to do that interest them more like... playing with their phones, computers and watching TV just to name three.

Oh come on Ken, you can do better than that.

[Kenomac]

Yachting is a dying pastime, get use to it.

[john61ct]

I also agree with that, too in general

IMO the more active oriented people are doing Instagram-worthy things like extreme sports, rock climbing etc

Fashions change.

[john61ct]

My point was, on topic here, that younger people full-time live aboard

in order to reduce housing costs and the need to work full-time jobs are on the rise,

whom traditionalists still believing in the concept of "retirement" will say can't afford sailing and "should be" working harder.

[laika]

Originally Posted by Sapphir3

A welcome to all young cruisers. Not enough young folks are going into boating these days. No wonder with the costs of everything these days. There are a lot of good used boats out there, some of which you can get for nearly nothing just to take them off someone's hands. Seen some nice 30 footers sawed to bits and thrown in 30 yard dumpsters.

I took the non standard route with my boat. When I hit 30 I bought an Acapulco 40 and sailed it along the east coast before I owned a home, had a wife, kids, a dog or any real roots. 30 years later I have all that stuff now. Never regretted my decision to do it as a young person instead of waiting until I retired.

At that time, I was the youngest person in my club doing this with a boat of that size.
As a young cruiser, you will never be as strong as you are now, and without obligations to others, you will never take the risks you can take now. If you are strapped for funds, you can still get anywhere you need to with a compass, paper charts, Eldridges tide table, a knot meter and a time piece. Don't let the price of all the fancy electronics keep you from doing it.

Live it up.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Thing I have noticed that shocked me is the the average person doesn’t mow their own grass, they don’t wash their own car, they don’t do it’s scheduled maintenance, let the sink develop a drip and they call a plumber, electrician etc.
I have never considered myself to be rich enough to pay others to do jobs like that, but it’s common now.
Watch TV, I guess now your supposed to pay other people to walk your dog?
The money is there, is just being spent and not saved, if it wasn’t there, then there wouldn’t be enough profit to pay for a National TV advertising campaign to have others walk your dog?

I think that attitude where people expect to hire someone else to do all the routine things you mention and many more is getting very common. On the one hand you have people complaining that they just can’t make it on what their job pays but they’re seemingly allergic to lawnmowers and wrenches and car wax and mechanical tools and woodworking tools, etc. I can now afford to hire all those things done for me but old habits die hard and I enjoy doing lots of things myself. It forces me to learn more about them and helps keep me aware of just what’s going on with my boat. I guess it’s a combination of being somewhat “snug” with money and I enjoy being a tinkerer and learning new stuff all the time. When I was growing up almost everyone was like that but in recent years I’ve noticed it’s becoming much less common. I’m not sure why that is but it seems to me that eventually the combination of lower paying jobs and the expectation of hiring so many simple things to be done for them are going to come into conflict and one or the other will have to give. For young people who want to cruise, keeping expenses low is important so hopefully those who are inclined to pursue a cruising lifestyle at a young age will, out of financial necessity, reinvigorate the old tradition you and I grew up with of doing as much as possible for yourself and hiring others as little as possible.

[john61ct]

The current economy means there are hundreds of people so desperate, they work for Apps without bennies (1099, not even employees, no workers comp no sickdays etc), take on debt to pay for the vehicle the gig requires, end up making less than minimum wage.

So those working real jobs (above median income), can have the luxury of servants running around for them, at $5 here, maybe $10 there with tip.

So if you figure your time is worth $60 an hour (not much these days) maybe you can rationalize you're freeing up time and energy to make higher income - especially if you're a freelancer yourself.

But honestly I think "the world may end tomorrow anyway" cynicism is more of a factor,

spend 'em while you got 'em,

lot less hope for the future knowing you'll never do as well as your parents did, and your kids may not even survive the coming catastrophes.

If I end up living out of the back of my car down by the river, not so bad really. . .

[atmartin]

Funny to see Capital in the 21st Century brought up on a cruising forum! The audiobook kept me awake during a long wax/varnish job. It runs 25 hrs and you miss out on the graphics, so I'm not sure it's a replacement for the actual book.

Our reasons for cruising are probably subconscious lessons from coming of age in the modern economy. John and Mike have hit the nail on the head in terms of our motivations. Free movement of capital (but not labor) and the absurdity of the real estate market call for some new solutions. Players 1 and 2 were too skeptical to buy in.

What we've been doing frankly isn't cruising in the sense of previous generations. For us living aboard isn't retirement or a gap between careers. Of the nearly 8 years we've lived aboard (we're 32), we've sailed barely 20,000 NM, haven't crossed any oceans and worked full time for at least 6 of those years. We're workers who happen to enjoy sailing, so we live on a boat instead of an RV. As we've become more experienced, it's gotten easier to avoid paying rent without being dirt-bags. We anchor out, live at marina/moorings where I'm working and stay moving. Saves a ton of money we'd piss away on rent, gas, car expenses and all that jazz.

Economic motivations are only part of the equation. My family's previous generation all had major health problems in their 50s and died of cancer in their early 60s. Some of that was work/lifestyle, but I'm sure genetics plays a role. Waiting until my 60s to do what I feel like might mean not doing it at all.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by atmartin

...Economic motivations are only part of the equation. My family's previous generation all had major health problems in their 50s and died of cancer in their early 60s. Some of that was work/lifestyle, but I'm sure genetics plays a role. Waiting until my 60s to do what I feel like might mean not doing it at all.

I think you’ve got a pretty good, and clear, perspective on all this .

We’re not that dissimilar in all this, which is partly why I probed the OP about what these issues are that he perceives are unique to younger cruisers. My view is that it’s less about age, and far more about economics, perspective, experience, and perhaps philosophy.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by atmartin

For us living aboard isn't retirement or a gap between careers. Of the nearly 8 years we've lived aboard (we're 32), we've sailed barely 20,000 NM, haven't crossed any oceans and worked full time for at least 6 of those years. We're workers who happen to enjoy sailing, so we live on a boat instead of an RV. As we've become more experienced, it's gotten easier to avoid paying rent without being dirt-bags. We anchor out, live at marina/moorings where I'm working and stay moving. Saves a ton of money we'd piss away on rent, gas, car expenses and all that jazz.

Bingo!

Actually cutting expenses to the bone - minimal housing / utility costs, no need for vacations etc

**combined** with working hard at decent-income employment/freelancing,

socking savings away,

eventually smart investing

is a pretty clear path to being able to "retire" (work less, travel more) pretty early.

Getting that risky expensive S&B homeownership off the list really frees up a lot of capital for more productive uses,

a boat done right is **lots** less expensive, and no expectation for resale value, it's paying for itself every month.

Get better work other side of the country, take it with you.

And your peers and colleagues won't think less of you like living in a van down by the river, most will be envious, if you choose to tell them.

[introverted]

Originally Posted by Bob Morane

A lot can happen in 40 years and there are MANY reasons to believe that the retirement "dream" is not happening for us.

A few potentials coming to mind :

- Declining demography in developed countries => not enough "working people" to sustain the current system built on exponential demography. In the last 30 years in France, the full pension retirement age went from 60 to 67. What is it going to be when baby boomers gradually retire over the next 20 years ?

- Increasingly indebted governments. This one is going to hurt when it pops. What happens if the system guaranteeing your pension goes bankrupt ? Where does the money come from ?

If you relying on the government to fund your early retirement and cruising dreams then yah, forget about it. That is your problem. At best you could expect social security to supplement your cruising dreams. Not fund it. You need a dose of reality. Not trying to be harsh, but most the folks you see on boats "living the dream" worked their tails off to get to that point. Most...

Originally Posted by Bob Morane

- Climate change, global instability, rarefaction of natural resources and fertile lands for an ever growing population, compromised food security, massive migrations waves, rise of tensions and nationalisms. See where I'm going at ?

I don't think the situation of current retirees is applicable to people who are just entering the workforce. I believe we will face completely different challenges.

climate change is a real concern. valid, I'll give you that. But all the doomsday fears about the future? Nope. All the folks you see "living the dream" made it through the rise of fascism and the cold war and duck and cover drills and stock market crashes and the rise of global terrorism. Yet, they are still "living the dream".

Here's a bit of free advice to you and young people looking to "live the dream". Quit financing your current lifestyles. stop buying junk like each iteration of the next iPhone. buy used stuff, especially big ticket items like cars. Get a financial adviser or save the 1-3% commission and take half of your money each month and put it in a ETF like SPY or SPYD or QQQ or all three. It might mean you have to have a smaller house or eat out less often but that is the only way to fund the dream short of having a rich aunt. Saving and hard work. If you don't have enough money in 20 or 30 years to fund your cruising dreams after doing that then something went terribly wrong in the world and sailing the oceans and social security will be the least of your concerns.

[Kim Gregory]

I was cruising at 31, and my wife was 23.
We met a dozen other couples our age on the ICW heading to Florida or the Bahamas.
The main differences between this group, and the retired cruisers was our budgets. We didn't have marina showers, dock power, and taxi / cars to get to the big stores. Most of us had worked hard to get our boat and a couple of thousand dollars to cruise. We were all going back to work in 6 to 10 months, many with some credit card debit too.

Us youngsters anchored out, and had to compare notes to find where to buy food (chicken $0.39/lb!), gear (anchor lantern, propane, used sails), and find free entertainment (St. Augustine had free outdoor movies!). There were often stores within a couple of blocks from shore, and swap meets, flea markets (Stuart, FL), that would do for parts. If you knew where to find them - a guide for the younger crowd would be GREAT!