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Old 21-11-2012, 13:17   #46
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Re: You'll Think I'm Crazy

Anchor and chain is pretty much where the remainder of my cash is going.
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Old 21-11-2012, 13:55   #47
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Re: You'll Think I'm Crazy

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Anchor and chain is pretty much where the remainder of my cash is going.
And snubber - don't forget the snubber! Or maybe just a piece of rope with a hook will do.

I really appreciate this thread, I hope others do too. I'm looking forward to the continuing Saga. I'll add you to my friend list to keep up with your experiences. I may soon be where you are today!
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Old 21-11-2012, 15:41   #48
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Re: You'll Think I'm Crazy

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I read somewhere about a scheme for getting more out of anchor/chain combination by attaching a bucket of scrap or concrete to your chain road a few feet below the surface. This forces the chain to lie at a lower angle, and therefore improve the drag performance on your anchor.

Does this boat have a working motor? Or sail only? Just wondering if you've got an easy way to get the boat into deeper shelter if things start to get uncomfortable on the anchor.
I've heard about the bucket thing too; only thing is, imagine hauling anchor+chain+bucket of crap out. Seems like it might not go too well without a good winch to help out. If I can afford that quality of winch, I figure I'd be better off investing in a similar quality of anchor.

I have an outboard; I wouldn't consider this with my level of experience without a motor. It's pretty decently powerful, and mounted so it can be raised pretty high if things are really choppy.
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Old 21-11-2012, 15:42   #49
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Re: You'll Think I'm Crazy

G'Day again, Dameon,

Better anchoring gear should indeed be on your primary list! But again, I would strongly suggest that you start scoping out alternative anchorages RIGHT NOW! Richardson's Bay is just not a good place to be in a strong southerly no matter how big your anchor is.

It has been a long time since Ann and I have anchored in SF Bay, and I suspect that rules and regs have multiplied... to say nothing of loss of memory function in my aging brain! But you will need somewhere to go for those southerlies. Clipper cove isn't too far away, and I understand that one can now anchor there via an on-line permit for reasonable time periods. That place has good S'ly protection and will get you through the crap safely... if the authorities don't frown on such usage.

For longer periods it may be possible to fine protection in one of the rivers that enter San Pablo Bay, or further up the Delta... my memory fails!

But the point is that you need to figure out your plan before the wx turns bad. With a small boat, outboard powered (I think you said) and limited sailing experience, moving when the winds have already increased will be difficult, and farting around trying to find a useful anchorage a trying or destructive experience.

As a street busker at least you don't have to report to work when the wx is bad, and this opens up some more remote anchorages for consideration.

Cheers,

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Old 21-11-2012, 16:07   #50
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Re: You'll Think I'm Crazy

I've definitely been looking at other anchorages; I don't discount anything anybody tells me.

There's several rivers and such around here that will serve, I think, and I'm working on a plan of action. Clipper Cove is a good suggestion.

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G'Day again, Dameon,

Better anchoring gear should indeed be on your primary list! But again, I would strongly suggest that you start scoping out alternative anchorages RIGHT NOW! Richardson's Bay is just not a good place to be in a strong southerly no matter how big your anchor is.

It has been a long time since Ann and I have anchored in SF Bay, and I suspect that rules and regs have multiplied... to say nothing of loss of memory function in my aging brain! But you will need somewhere to go for those southerlies. Clipper cove isn't too far away, and I understand that one can now anchor there via an on-line permit for reasonable time periods. That place has good S'ly protection and will get you through the crap safely... if the authorities don't frown on such usage.

For longer periods it may be possible to fine protection in one of the rivers that enter San Pablo Bay, or further up the Delta... my memory fails!

But the point is that you need to figure out your plan before the wx turns bad. With a small boat, outboard powered (I think you said) and limited sailing experience, moving when the winds have already increased will be difficult, and farting around trying to find a useful anchorage a trying or destructive experience.

As a street busker at least you don't have to report to work when the wx is bad, and this opens up some more remote anchorages for consideration.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 21-11-2012, 17:46   #51
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Re: You'll Think I'm Crazy

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I've heard about the bucket thing too; only thing is, imagine hauling anchor+chain+bucket of crap out. Seems like it might not go too well without a good winch to help out. If I can afford that quality of winch, I figure I'd be better off investing in a similar quality of anchor.

I have an outboard; I wouldn't consider this with my level of experience without a motor. It's pretty decently powerful, and mounted so it can be raised pretty high if things are really choppy.
To make it work, I think the bucket would be hauled up separately - probably with a rope of it's own, I would guess. It's ok if you plan to stay anchored in a single spot, I think, but I agree is an additional level of complexity for frequent anchoring.

Anway,winch or not, the bucket gets attached after the anchor is on the ground, and detached before the anchor is lifted, so it shouldn't add any additional stress to the system.

Effective and cheap was the idea behind this one!
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Old 21-11-2012, 17:53   #52
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Re: You'll Think I'm Crazy

Also, there's the possibility of throwing down your own mooring. Anything heavy (REAL heavy), and not smooth and round, heaved overboard should do the trick. Connect a rope and a plastic bottle and you have a nice semi-permanent mooring.

Do not know if this will violate local rules though - it probably will. If you eliminate the plastic bottle, though, and don't plan on moving for a while, then the "anchor" would be invisible below the water. You could pull it up, I guess, though it might be backbreaking work and possibly damaging to the boat.

Anyway, anything other than marine quality anchor chain and a proper anchor is temporary solutioning and will have to be repeated at a later time. These are just some ideas for solving an immediate issue.
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Old 21-11-2012, 18:43   #53
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Core rot. Don't wait to repair the water coming through those bolts, it will turn your deck into a sloppy mess. In general, go slowly learning to sail as the ocean does not suffer fools lightly. Another option, for $4k you could get a certification in diesel mechanics and work your way around the world on nice boats that you don't have to maintain. Boats require a certain level of obsessive compulsive disorder to keep them safe.
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Old 21-11-2012, 19:07   #54
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Re: You'll Think I'm Crazy

For an anchor in the SF bay, for those on a budget, I would get a bruce clone. For your boat get a 33#, It will hold your boat in the storms no problem. Agree that Danford is so not the anchor to use.

For storm anchorages, Clipper cove is good, as is the Petaluma river just north of the 37 bridge and off mare island across from Vallejo. The Petaluma river has silt on top so you need to allow for sink time to allow the anchor to settle below the silt before setting. Also need to anchor to the sides to avoid barge traffic. But not too close as a wind shift will take you to shore.

Getting to the delta this time of year, will take you more that a day. Other then off mare island there's not another safe anchorage till middle slough in pittsburg.

When the tides are against you, you'll be lucky to do 2-1/2 knots. Plus San Pablo and the stretch between Port Chicago and Pittsburg can be lots of fun (read wet) with short steep chop, 2-3 foot, when the winds are up. Not bad going to the delta, but can be very moist on the trip back. Specially in the summer when the winds are up. Now a days its a cake walk, unless the winds are above 20 knots

Lots of easy anchorage locations in the delta. Rio Vista, Isleston and others have free city docks for 2 hours to run to the store, etc.

Actually if you tuck into paradise cove (east side of Tuburon) it offers protection from the nnw to ssw maybe to south if you set north of the fishing pier there. Wide open to the east so not good then, but that's a rare day on the bay.
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Old 21-11-2012, 19:58   #55
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Re: You'll Think I'm Crazy

A few things I'd like to add to all the great advice already given here..

As others have said, a Danforth is not generally a good choice. If you plan on trekking to the delta for shelter, the Danforth is the worst possible choice because much of the bottom is grass. A Bruce clone is your best bet. It will hold well in mud and grass.

The delta has a lot of protected anchorages, but winds pick up in April and stay strong through October. You have a lot of great anchoring options in the sloughs along the San Joaquin and Sacramento rivers. Potato slough, Mandeville point, and sections around Franks Tract offer good anchoring in the winter but offer limited protection from winds during the spring, summer and early fall. The delta offers very little in terms of employment opportunities, so that's an important consideration.
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Old 21-11-2012, 20:20   #56
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Re: You'll Think I'm Crazy

Welcome Dameon....first of all my hats off to you my friend for getting out of the rat race.....hopefully I ll be soon to follow if I ever muster enough balls to leave it all on land....Just a sugestion I have in case you are not aware of it.....for GPS, Chartplotter, internet provider and of course phone service I recomend one of those pay as you go AT&T smart phones with built in gps that walmart sells for 120 $. For 25$ you can get 250 min a month and 5 more bucks will give 1 GB of data that gives you access to internet to check the weather, tides and radar etc. For 6$ you can download MX Mariner which is a chart plotter app which works independently of phone service. Same as the gps. I used them both off the coast and they work even if I had no phone service. Of course they have their drawbacks.......the screen is kind of hard to see when it is really bright outside but it saved me at least a few hundreds of dollars on Gps and chartploter. Just make sure you dont splash any salt water on it. It might seem like a hard thing to do on a sail boat but..... just put the phone on a ziplock bag......you can actualy use the touch screen like that......best of luck to you and stay safe......Constantin
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Old 22-11-2012, 01:08   #57
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Re: You'll Think I'm Crazy

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To make it work, I think the bucket would be hauled up separately - probably with a rope of it's own, I would guess. It's ok if you plan to stay anchored in a single spot, I think, but I agree is an additional level of complexity for frequent anchoring.

Anway,winch or not, the bucket gets attached after the anchor is on the ground, and detached before the anchor is lifted, so it shouldn't add any additional stress to the system.

Effective and cheap was the idea behind this one!
What you're referring to here is also called a "kettle". Generally their only really effective use is in lighter weather. Once it starts blowing, kettles don't add anything.

If you want to learn about anchors and anchoring, read Peter Smith. Here is the link. While Peter is the inventor of the Rocna and therefore a bit biased, his website is the most comprehensive discussion of anchors and anchoring I've yet seen.

Anchors and Anchoring


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Old 22-11-2012, 04:11   #58
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Re: You'll Think I'm Crazy

On the anchor - As you are intending to moor her over winter (in an area that appears to be known to have a few "challenges" ) I would go for f#ck off oversized .......and keep it solely as your winter anchor rather than for future day to day cruising use (where the size / weight would be a PITA both to handle and to store in a usable manner). At the end of winter you can either keep it onboard tucked away (or even onshore) for next winter or just in case!....or you can keep it for the next (bigger!) boat or send it back to E-bay etc at anytime, end of winter or when plans change (an oversize anchor won't really add anything to resale value of the boat - indeed most people won't need or want it).....basically what I am saying is that a well oversized anchor is not neccessarily money simply thrown away - if you buy well (and s/h) a good chance of getting money back later (not many things you will add to the boat that can say that about!).

In addition, rather than hauling up the (oversized) anchor if you want (or suddenly need?!) to relocate for a while (or simply want to go for a daysail!) then you can simply bouy the anchor line and make it into a temporary mooring. (just make sure the bouy can take the weight of the chain - so it still floats on the surface when you let go! - I also suggest a bit of forethought in the set up to make sure the chain does not go glug whilst you are fixing on the bouy!).

On another note - I recall mention of the o/b, one thing to bear in mind is that whilst the power you have (9.9hp?) is adequate for most conditions, the fact that the engine is on the stern means that when it gets rough the engine will cavitate (the prop spins in fresh air!) as the boat pitches up and over waves - that obviously does reduce the power you can deploy, and in really bad conditions (say an onshore gale with rollers coming in) that might not be enough to guarantee the boat actually makes ground......not something to get too excited about, just to bear in mind when deciding whether to move now or later.

Also you may well find that some days it is either too rough to leave the boat by dink - or return! and some days (especially on 26 foot) may find sitting on the boat akin to being in a washing machine , again those simply things to bear in mind.........lots of stuff about boats is having a plan B (or C!), or at least half of one, even if plan A does involve a bit of finger crossing!
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Old 22-11-2012, 04:33   #59
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Re: You'll Think I'm Crazy

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What you're referring to here is also called a "kettle". Generally their only really effective use is in lighter weather. Once it starts blowing, kettles don't add anything.

If you want to learn about anchors and anchoring, read Peter Smith. Here is the link. While Peter is the inventor of the Rocna and therefore a bit biased, his website is the most comprehensive discussion of anchors and anchoring I've yet seen.

Anchors and Anchoring



Never heard one referred to as a "kettle" before. It's a kellet.



Kellets or Anchor Angels / Sentinels: Uses and Applications
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Old 24-11-2012, 21:57   #60
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Re: You'll Think I'm Crazy

Why can't he just buy bags of concrete, take them out in the dingy one or two at a time? Mix it in buckets with a hole in the side (run 2 inch pvc through) and add 3-5 2-3 foot pieces of rebar in the bucket to keep the cement together. If you get some epoxy coated rebar dowels they can be run horizontally through the bucket to grip the mud bottom. If you do it right you can build 2-3 buckets and send them to the bottom, via the pvc hole in the side. Or is this a no go because of local regs?-Guy
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