Wintering in New York

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by savoir

Have you tried Liberty Landing in NJ ? It's only 12 mins by ferry from NY. Not sure about cat specific slips. Last winter there was plenty of space.

Liberty landing looks best for facilities, etc.
I priced Chelsea piers - very reasonable for the six month off-season. May not only be expensive in the summer, but booked. Which is fine for me as I would prefer to be east - islands/montauk - during the summer.
Chelsea piers will have no water/pump-out etc, but has access to the sporting complex - Club showers/saunas/steam-rooms, lounges, swimming pool, etc..

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

You asked about moisture and whether this is a problem only if you don't have good heat.

It IS a problem even with good heat. The problem is from condensation. It will be a much bigger problem on a boat with solid GRP topsides, than one which is cored. I believe that nearly all large cats are cored everywhere. Our boat is balsa cored down to the turn of the bilge and is reasonably free of condensation inside. But we will still get a lot of condensation inside hatches and so forth. Keeping the air circulating will help evaporate this condensation but you might have to deal with drips into your bunk and other unpleasant phenomena, as we do.

Ok thanks
Will endeavorer to provide the right amount of ventilation to overcome the condensation.
I priced a system from ITR. - about 12k for materials for two 25,000 btu units and accessories. With a little bolstering of insulation, sealing the cockpit, and providing ventilation - should be comfortable...
All the ducks are aligned - just need a boat!!

[thinwater]

Though I do not live aboard, I do keep a cat in the water and do cruise and live abord for short periods during the winter. Some thoughts:

Get an IR thermometer and scan the inside of the boat when it turns cold. Heat leaks in boats are much differnt from houses, and you are just guessing until you scan and find the cold spots. On my boat, the big losses are:
* Windows. Though they are water tight, they are not double glazed. They lose heat 10-30x faster than other hull areas. Add storm windows (cut lexan sheet to match the size of removable screens) or external covers), as apropriate:
Sail Delmarva: Salon Window Covers
Sail Delmarva: A Few More PDQ Upgrades
* Floors and bridge deck. Carpets are easy. In general, with cats the floor is not far below the waterline. I would throw cheap padding under them if I was living aboard all winter.
* Roof. VERY LITTLE LOSS. The roof is about 1 1/4 foam sandwich with a linner inside that.
*Hulls. Less foam, but still, little loss.
* Doors. Most cats have very leaky doors. Weatherstrip and insulate. I also hang a big beach towel over mine.
* Close-off areas you arn't using, allowing for some ventalation.
* Do go in all of the lockers with some frequency and let them dry; because you will be adding moisture you are likely to get some condensation somewhere, where there is a cold surface.
* Don't run the stove too much; though the heat seems nice, the CO is a problem and so is the moisture. And get a CO monitor; I prefer the cheap battery operated stand-alone units, since event the fancy ones are destroyed if they get wet.

Figure out a way to keep the smoke stack for the heater clear of snow. ALWAYS check after a snow. IF the heat was turned down just a little at night, it will get burried.

I don't see how you cover it and motor to the pump-out.

Some of your water system runs in un-heated compartments. You may have to blank something off, or get some heat into those areas.

I do hope you have a big hard doger. Snow in the companion way sounds like a pain.

I don't see how you motor to the pump-out if the harbor freezes; better get local info since this is quite variable (depends on salt and tide). However, in our area, nearly as cold, the pump-outs do function all year.

Getting tap water can be a problem. They will turn it off, so you may have to lug it.

Get a good plastic folding car-trunk shovel; won't scratch the deck and just the right size.

And some other thoughts:
Sail Delmarva: Winter Sailing

I find the boat comfortable in the winter. However, most boats were designed with summer in mind, so you just need to re-think it as though it were a house getting ready for winter.

[savoir]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

Liberty landing looks best for facilities, etc.
I priced Chelsea piers - very reasonable for the six month off-season. May not only be expensive in the summer, but booked. Which is fine for me as I would prefer to be east - islands/montauk - during the summer.
Chelsea piers will have no water/pump-out etc, but has access to the sporting complex - Club showers/saunas/steam-rooms, lounges, swimming pool, etc..

I don't know that place but I know that Liberty Landing is near deserted, unless you're a duck, until the end of April. I was there 2 days last March. After that you either disappear or pay up.

[RunningFish]

I wintered over at Chelsea Piers last year and would be happy to share my experience if you PM me.

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by RunningFish

I wintered over at Chelsea Piers last year and would be happy to share my experience if you PM me.

thanks,
still looking for boat - if nothing happens in the next couple of weeks.
will be next year

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Though I do not live aboard, I do keep a cat in the water and do cruise and live abord for short periods during the winter. Some thoughts:

Get an IR thermometer and scan the inside of the boat when it turns cold. Heat leaks in boats are much differnt from houses, and you are just guessing until you scan and find the cold spots. On my boat, the big losses are:
* Windows. Though they are water tight, they are not double glazed. They lose heat 10-30x faster than other hull areas. Add storm windows (cut lexan sheet to match the size of removable screens) or external covers), as apropriate:
Sail Delmarva: Salon Window Covers
Sail Delmarva: A Few More PDQ Upgrades
* Floors and bridge deck. Carpets are easy. In general, with cats the floor is not far below the waterline. I would throw cheap padding under them if I was living aboard all winter.
* Roof. VERY LITTLE LOSS. The roof is about 1 1/4 foam sandwich with a linner inside that.
*Hulls. Less foam, but still, little loss.
* Doors. Most cats have very leaky doors. Weatherstrip and insulate. I also hang a big beach towel over mine.
* Close-off areas you arn't using, allowing for some ventalation.
* Do go in all of the lockers with some frequency and let them dry; because you will be adding moisture you are likely to get some condensation somewhere, where there is a cold surface.
* Don't run the stove too much; though the heat seems nice, the CO is a problem and so is the moisture. And get a CO monitor; I prefer the cheap battery operated stand-alone units, since event the fancy ones are destroyed if they get wet.

Figure out a way to keep the smoke stack for the heater clear of snow. ALWAYS check after a snow. IF the heat was turned down just a little at night, it will get burried.

I don't see how you cover it and motor to the pump-out.

Some of your water system runs in un-heated compartments. You may have to blank something off, or get some heat into those areas.

I do hope you have a big hard doger. Snow in the companion way sounds like a pain.

I don't see how you motor to the pump-out if the harbor freezes; better get local info since this is quite variable (depends on salt and tide). However, in our area, nearly as cold, the pump-outs do function all year.

Getting tap water can be a problem. They will turn it off, so you may have to lug it.

Get a good plastic folding car-trunk shovel; won't scratch the deck and just the right size.

And some other thoughts:
Sail Delmarva: Winter Sailing

I find the boat comfortable in the winter. However, most boats were designed with summer in mind, so you just need to re-think it as though it were a house getting ready for winter.

thanks good info there.
I would be inclined to get the heating systems in. For long term cruising use, as well as winter marina use. Running the heating lines adjacent to the existing water lines and looping around holding/water tanks(and insulating them).
The extra boat insulation would be "played by ear". I would want to be able to motor off to NJ to fill/empty tanks(or head for Florida). However, bearing in mind that the river could freeze over.
Water could be schlepped from inside the complex and diesel from the local gas station. Toilets/showers/restaurants inside the gym.

My greatest fear is a hard freeze-over. Apparently the ice-eaters are quite effective. Anyone confirm this?


Ok, I just read some of your blog. Really informative, and well written. Thanks for that!!!
cheers

[thinwater]

Yes, ice eaters are very effective in your climate. One, placed between the hulls and angled according to the instructions, should easily keep the area around the boat clear. Generally, you should only need to run it at night (not really forming ice when the sun is up).

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Yes, ice eaters are very effective in your climate. One, placed between the hulls and angled according to the instructions, should easily keep the area around the boat clear. Generally, you should only need to run it at night (not really forming ice when the sun is up).

hi thinwater,
couple of comments. Would you recommend the use of heating tape/rope around various sump-pumps, outlets, fittings etc?
I like your info on clothing etc. Your ice-climbing background is useful. I do some mountain climbing, and train for triathlon year round -riding/running in all conditions, (swim in indoor heated pool though) So I have plenty of high quality technical clothing, and experience on what to wear. I will look into the ice-climbing gloves.
However, I used to windsurf in the late fall(best wind). Even though we had dry-suits/boots/hoods/helmets, there was no effective gloves for the hands. You would lose "feel" on the boom, squeeze harder, and eventually "blow-up" your forearms, rendering hands useless. The solution was to use regular yellow dish washing gloves duct-taped to seal. Not sure if this, or thicker rubber gloves would be efficacious???
How about ice cleats like yaktrax on boots when on deck(at least on the dock)? Is there something similar that is not too abrasive? i'd rather have a couple of scratches than be dead!! We would more likely be wearing them down the dock and street in very icy conditions. I would imagine getting on and off the boat would be very dangerous.
And is ice-melt mix ok to chuck on the boat?
thanks for the great info