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Old 17-05-2016, 23:52   #46
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Re: Wind Vs. Solar - Best Options

When solar, output is 2/3 of nominal wattage, and 6-8h/d max.

Thus only 5/600W solar is reasonable for sufficiency. Your 340W is just in the middle of it.
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Old 18-05-2016, 00:38   #47
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Re: Wind Vs. Solar - Best Options

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Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
When solar, output is 2/3 of nominal wattage, and 6-8h/d max.

Thus only 5/600W solar is reasonable for sufficiency. Your 340W is just in the middle of it.
Really confused here I don't understand I guess we run 8 month out of the year on 200 watts solar
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Old 18-05-2016, 00:56   #48
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Re: Wind Vs. Solar - Best Options

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Really confused here I don't understand I guess we run 8 month out of the year on 200 watts solar
I was answering a previous comment , saying that his 340W are often not enough.

Your 200W are trifle, but obviously enough for you. A 50' has 600W solar for reasonable liveaboard sufficiency.

No irony, but as a liveaboard i found great advantage in
- drinking tank water (4 filters)
- switching off fridge /freezer, if no woman is onboard
- checking battery routinely (daily)

Best BM?? VOLTMETER

BATTERY SOC% !? no thank you, i keep charging till when absorption is down from 9A to 2,5A at 220V
That means that chargers (105A) run almost idle.
Note: 9A means 2000W, and 105A x13V means 1350W, that is 67% efficiency.

PS energy provision on board needs systemic approach based on complementary sources and depending on circumstances + personal choices. No one alike.

DH: consider flexible solar on bimini ...
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Old 18-05-2016, 01:29   #49
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Re: Wind Vs. Solar - Best Options

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Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
. . .

Best BM?? VOLTMETER

BATTERY SOC% !? no thank you, i keep charging till when absorption is down from 9A to 2,5A at 220V
That means that chargers (105A) run almost idle.
A bit of thread drift, but this is so right. I've gone from Victron amp-counting battery monitor to simply watching and starting gradually to understand a simple voltmeter, to the highly acclaimed Merlin SmartGauge, now sold by Balmar, which I was surprised to see tells me nothing I didn't already know from informed reading of the simple voltmeter.

If you have a way to measure the charging current on top of that, then you're golden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
DH: consider flexible solar on bimini ...

Bimini??? Gak!
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Old 18-05-2016, 05:38   #50
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Re: Wind Vs. Solar - Best Options

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The real issue with hydro generators is that they really need a boat that can maintain a high average speed. Kick in speed for many of them is around 3kn, which would preclude generating in any anchorage I would want to be in. At 7-8kn the power produced is substantial, but unless you are constantly rolling off 200nm plus days the performance has generally been show to be poor.

The problem is that people forget that most of their 200nm days happen when broad reaching and they have the waves following them. This also kills the power production. You need 7-8kn thru the water, not over ground to be meaningful.

That being said, on a fast boat they can provide more power than you would ever need.
Greg, I don't know about the commercial hydrogens, but it seems that the current systems are aimed at high speed racers, not cruising folks, and thus the high speed requirements that you quote.

My only experience is with a home brew system on our previous boat. It was a surplus 32 volt perm mag motor from an old tape drive, a 6 hp outboard prop and some 1/2 inch double braid line. It showed around 2 amps at 4 knots and 10 amps at 6 knots. It went up rapidly after that speed, but would jump out of the water much of the time at 7 knots, and the average current was lower. Our typical sailing speed at sea was around 6 knots, so this worked out pretty well. I'd like to have such power in our current boat...

Speeds quoted are through the water... the only ones that matter when considering hydro power generation, so the point of sail is not an issue... dunno why you brought that up in your post.

Our simple system worked well. It's main drawback was drag, which slowed the boat a bit, and difficulty in retrieving the prop when at speed. We worked out means of dealing with this issue, but it was a minor PITA at times.

Jim
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Old 18-05-2016, 06:06   #51
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Re: Wind Vs. Solar - Best Options

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
The real issue with hydro generators is that they really need a boat that can maintain a high average speed. Kick in speed for many of them is around 3kn, which would preclude generating in any anchorage I would want to be in. At 7-8kn the power produced is substantial, but unless you are constantly rolling off 200nm plus days the performance has generally been show to be poor.

The problem is that people forget that most of their 200nm days happen when broad reaching and they have the waves following them. This also kills the power production. You need 7-8kn thru the water, not over ground to be meaningful.

That being said, on a fast boat they can provide more power than you would ever need.
My folks get enough out of their toad generator to power both the autopilot and the fridge on their 40 year old concrete gaff ketch. They struggle to fit much solar with all the rigging shading the panels.
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Old 18-05-2016, 11:48   #52
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Re: Wind Vs. Solar - Best Options

Jim,

I was just pointing out that many people remember their 200nm day passages but forget that on many boats that was done downwind, or with current helping. Obviously only speed thru the water is the only metric that matters for them.

I am actually a big fan of hydro gens, but selection needs to be made with their limitations in mind.
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Old 18-05-2016, 12:55   #53
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Re: Wind Vs. Solar - Best Options

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Rutland 914i, top rated among medium power wind turbines.

Produces brief flashes of power at 100 watts in wind more than 20 knots, but practical output in a very windy place (above 50 degree N) less than 1 amp @ 24v even on windy days.

Did not produce enough power even to cover self-discharge of my bank.

Noisy enough to be a bother, although it is much quieter than many.

Utterly useless rubbish, in my opinion. Biggest mistake I ever made in gear, and one of the more expensive ones.
Lol....You are so right. People see the blades turning and think its making power. I'm.Not due what the Rutland actually does?

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Old 18-05-2016, 15:29   #54
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Re: Wind Vs. Solar - Best Options

I use about 140 to 160 amphrs a day I have a Kiss high output wind gen. on my mizzen and 210 watts of solar. below the 25th parallel I make too much power and have to shut the wind off some times. with several cloudy days the wind handles the load, on the sunny low wind days the solar keeps up. That wind generator doesn't cause near as much windage as the extra 400 watts of solar I'd have to have without the wind gen.

the noise? I can still hear the dog yapping two boats away. I can also hear the Ampair gen on the other side too. you can spend big bucks and get quieter than the kiss. but the cost and maintenance and repairability are worth it. I'm not a dealer, nor are they friends of mine I'm just a satisfied customer, with a low income.
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Old 25-05-2016, 12:23   #55
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Re: Wind Vs. Solar - Best Options

Regarding noise from wind generators can only say that the Eclectic D400 is pretty well silent, other than a soft whisper even at or above 15-20 knts wind speed. So don't rule out wind generators for that reason alone, not all are equal. Both solar and wind is best of both worlds as many have inputted.

Hey Mike still heading up north to the Rock this year??
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Old 25-05-2016, 14:11   #56
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Re: Wind Vs. Solar - Best Options

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Regarding noise from wind generators can only say that the Eclectic D400 is pretty well silent, other than a soft whisper even at or above 15-20 knts wind speed. So don't rule out wind generators for that reason alone, not all are equal. Both solar and wind is best of both worlds as many have inputted.

Hey Mike still heading up north to the Rock this year??
+1 on the D400's. They're very quiet. They probably would have been my first choice, except they are heavy (too heavy for my mount) and quite pricey. But well worth it from what I've seen.

Newfoundland is still the plan Terry, although we're still fighting with the Perkins right now. As long as it's nothing major (seems to be a timing issue right now), we're hoping to start heading your way by mid/late June.
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