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Old 14-02-2018, 01:31   #61
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

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a 50foot production cat is from 900K to 2 million
My point exactly
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Old 14-02-2018, 01:42   #62
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

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Dolphins like playing in the bow wave at 7.5 kn
Mackeral like taking lures at 7.5 kn

If high speed is so important to you why are you sailing?
A power cat can happily and efficiently run at 7.5kt. Even better with the wide beam, you can troll more lures.

I sail occasionally because the powerboat I bought happened to have a mast and sails.


Again a modest power cat with all of that above will cost $700+
Show me one that has been done cheaper with decent build quality, quality gear and a proper walk around king size bed and I'll buy it tomorrow

Yep, put in lots of caviots that can't be challenged, so you can knock down any suggestion. I still haven't seen where you have shown me a 60' ocean crossing trawler that will run less than $2mil new that meets my build and systems quality expectations.
Again, cats have their limitations and they are not for everyone but yes, you can build a long range cat at a reasonable price.
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Old 14-02-2018, 01:50   #63
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

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Yep, put in lots of caviots that can't be challenged, so you can knock down any suggestion.
Lots of caveats?
A king size bed and quality gear vs Yum Cha engine and string for engine controls is hardly lots of caveats

Quote:
Again, cats have their limitations and they are not for everyone but yes, you can build a long range cat at a reasonable price
Please, show proof.
Pretty please?

A caveat here is my endless labour for free , untested materials for construction and yum cha diesels aint going to cut it
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Old 14-02-2018, 01:51   #64
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

And then there is my absolute favourite.... can never afford but love it..

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Old 14-02-2018, 01:54   #65
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

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FOr a small runaround, the suggestion to remove the mast on a Gemini is a good one.

However: I cannot bring myself to demast a perfectly good sailboat.

Perhaps if purchased in a 'distressed' condition I could do it....
Yeah, if you compare it to a 60' trawler is will come up way short on space and cargo capacity but great option for coastal cruising and competitive against similar size boats.

No need to destroy the boat. We could take the mast down in an hour or so. Did it a couple of times on the great loop. Because it's deck stepped, no hole to cover and the step isn't too noticeable.

If you know you aren't going to use the sails much on a trip and need to get below low bridges, take it down, store it and you have a very nice trawler cat. Most of your sailing cats can be used the same way as they aren't significantly affected by losing the mast.

The biggest downside with using the larger sail cats as a trawler is the beam can be limiting on narrower waterways and in marinas. Of course, a 45' cat is going to be comparable to maybe a 55' trawler and a lot of small marinas that have issues with a 45' cat will have issues with a 55' trawler.
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Old 14-02-2018, 01:58   #66
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

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Lots of caveats?
A king size bed and quality gear vs Yum Cha engine and string for engine controls is hardly lots of caveats



Please, show proof.
Pretty please?

A caveat here is my endless labour for free , untested materials for construction and yum cha diesels aint going to cut it
Ya got me.

60' trawlers can be had for spare change and power cats are a bazillion dollars.

I see the game you are playing. Any example I give, you are going to call low quality or it won't have a specific feature you want. Not playing that game.
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Old 14-02-2018, 03:29   #67
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

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Ya got me.

60' trawlers can be had for spare change and power cats are a bazillion dollars.

I see the game you are playing. Any example I give, you are going to call low quality or it won't have a specific feature you want. Not playing that game.
Well, I have a trawler that can be bought for spare change ( in comparison) and you have produced nothing.

By all means, if you can prove me wrong ,( and I hope you do because I'll be all over that cat like white on rice), please do.
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Old 14-02-2018, 04:00   #68
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

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Well, I have a trawler that can be bought for spare change ( in comparison) and you have produced nothing.
You haven't given the criteria for determining what is an acceptable boat built to your "high standards" or a comparable price for your ideal trawler built new to your "high standard", so how can I produce something that meets your standards if you don't provide the standards along with the price and details for the boat you say it needs to compete against?

Again, this is a case of trying to win an argument by not clearly defining the problem and then asking for examples that can be picked apart by defining parts of the problem with the primary goal of winning the argument rather than looking at the overall viability of the idea.

If you want to provide detailed criteria and a comparable boat starting price, I'm willing to play but I can see how you are trying to set me up and I'm not playing that game.
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Old 14-02-2018, 04:19   #69
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

I have been a life long power boat owner. I started in go fast boats, moved to centre console fishing boats, then bought a 51' Bertram, a 59' Baia express boat, and had always owned power boats. This was throughout my entire working life when I was very busy, lived on land and went boating in my spare time. when I retired I made the decision to sell everything and take the time to go cruising. In order to cover the long distances and do it economically I decided on a sailboat. In 2010 boats were very cheap and I could buy a big sailboat for very little money, and covering the long distances was inexpensive and sailing for me is enjoyable with unlimited time. When it comes to living aboard a Motoryacht is hands down way better than any sailboat under 70'. Now I am done sailing I am looking to buy a Motoryacht to live aboard and do trips in the Caribbean. It just makes sense for me, I am done living in a cave, time to come back up to the surface and see the light
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Old 14-02-2018, 04:31   #70
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

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You haven't given the criteria for determining what is an acceptable boat built to your "high standards" or a comparable price for your ideal trawler built new to your "high standard", so how can I produce something that meets your standards if you don't provide the standards along with the price and details for the boat you say it needs to compete against?
Really?
I thought I quite clearly stated that something comparable to what we have now and I quote ........
Quote:
.Lots of caveats?
A king size bed and quality gear vs Yum Cha engine and string for engine controls is hardly lots of caveats
So from that, a comfortable live aboard power cat capable of carrying several thousand miles worth of fuel, water, solar and quality engines, running gear etc plus king size bed.

Not even sure if the domino 20 has a king size bed

To be truly comparable to ours it would also need walk in engine room, two full sized bathrooms, full sized galley, second bedroom with walk around queen, walk in pantry, 800 litres of refrigeration, spa, capability to carry a 4.3 m tinny with a 30hp, walk in workshop, and and and but let's just start with the first part, a comfortable live aboard power cat capable of carrying several thousand miles worth of fuel, water, solar and quality engines, running gear etc plus king size bed.
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Old 14-02-2018, 05:17   #71
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

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Really?
I thought I quite clearly stated that something comparable to what we have now and I quote ........

So from that, a comfortable live aboard power cat capable of carrying several thousand miles worth of fuel, water, solar and quality engines, running gear etc plus king size bed.

Not even sure if the domino 20 has a king size bed

To be truly comparable to ours it would also need walk in engine room, two full sized bathrooms, full sized galley, second bedroom with walk around queen, walk in pantry, 800 litres of refrigeration, spa, capability to carry a 4.3 m tinny with a 30hp, walk in workshop, and and and but let's just start with the first part, a comfortable live aboard power cat capable of carrying several thousand miles worth of fuel, water, solar and quality engines, running gear etc plus king size bed.
.
Let's start with you defining exactly what constitutes "quality gear". As soon as I start listing out anything, you are going to claim that it's junk and not comparable.

So why do you need a walk in engine room if you have a pair of outboards?

And you still haven't given us a comparable price for your 60' trawler if built new.
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Old 14-02-2018, 06:12   #72
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

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living aboard motor yachts, yet a plethora of sailboats. Every time I ask for advice, or for someone to hit me with a bit of knowledge I get advice and/or knowledge of sailboats, even when I specify that I'm asking about motor yachts. I may not be the brightest crayon in the tool shed, but I know that I don't have to worry about the sail rigging on a boat that doesn't use sails.
But, why are there so many more sailboaters? Or, is it that there aren't necessarily more sailboaters, just fewer motor yacht owners that speak to people with a bank account under $10M?
Hi Wasp. Welcome

The choice, and the debate, are as old as the internal combustion engine, and as you've seen upthread, still passionate.

In my area I'm pretty sure there are more LOBs on power boats. And, probably, more power boats so sized that they could be used for cruising, than sailboats so sized.

Regarding space, it is my view that a realistic comparison on power vs. sail considers boats with comparable space and accommodations. So we might consider a comparison between, say, a 52' monohull sailboat, a 44' motor trawler, and a 40' sailing cat. Roughly. The idea being to consider craft of comparable capability and comfort.

Motor yachts divide into two very different categories, planing hulls and displacement hulls. The displacement hull craft like Nordhavn and Kadey Krogen have top speeds similar to sailboats. But most power yachts are built in planing hulls that provide a much higher top speed.

While I may be mistaken it is my conclusion that the minimum dollar cost to purchase and prepare a motor trawler suitable for bluewater cruising is much higher than the dollar cost to purchase and prepare a ~~37' sailboat. Absent a requirement for bluewater ability, there are far more options for power.

At this particular point in history, it is rarely economically worthwhile to engage in a major refit of an older, cruising-sized powerboat that needs engine work. Engine technology changes, and availability of parts and service is a factor to consider with older power boats.

Fuel cost may be a factor depending on your situation. It is my experience that the 24-26' runabouts (gasoline powered) many of my friends have quite typically burn $100 of fuel during a day on the water, just bumping around sightseeing and not going anywhere in particular. If you operate a twin engine 40' boat at planing speeds you can easily burn 30 gallons of gasoline an hour.

The motor trawler owners mostly seem to use them for extended gunkholing trips. I think they're probably perfect for that and economical to operate that way once purchased.

Lots of choices, have fun whatever way you go.
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Old 14-02-2018, 06:40   #73
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

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A purpose built 40-45' cat with a 2500mile range would be pretty straight forward without breaking the bank.
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In these parts of the world it'd probably cost $700k plus if getting someone to do the build for you.
When I was in the philippines.. a typical 40ft trimaran cost $2500 new. It can cruise 7 knots on a single 150cc engine, or 10 knots using both engines.
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Old 14-02-2018, 16:14   #74
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

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Really?
I thought I quite clearly stated that something comparable to what we have now and I quote ........

So from that, a comfortable live aboard power cat capable of carrying several thousand miles worth of fuel, water, solar and quality engines, running gear etc plus king size bed.

Not even sure if the domino 20 has a king size bed

To be truly comparable to ours it would also need walk in engine room, two full sized bathrooms, full sized galley, second bedroom with walk around queen, walk in pantry, 800 litres of refrigeration, spa, capability to carry a 4.3 m tinny with a 30hp, walk in workshop, and and and but let's just start with the first part, a comfortable live aboard power cat capable of carrying several thousand miles worth of fuel, water, solar and quality engines, running gear etc plus king size bed.
.
I'm going to have a little fun with you.

How about an Eneavor 44.
- Two full sized bathrooms
- Full size galley
- Not sure the exact "litres" but pretty good size fridge.
- Decent dingy capacity.
- about a 2000 mile range.
- Island main bed plus two additional cabins.
- Easily the interior space of a 55' monohul sailboat

Not 100% of what you called for but a lot.
This is all in a boat not really marketed for long ocean crossings.
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Old 14-02-2018, 17:12   #75
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Re: Why not a motor yacht?

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I'm going to have a little fun with you.

How about an Eneavor 44.
- Two full sized bathrooms
- Full size galley
- Not sure the exact "litres" but pretty good size fridge.
- Decent dingy capacity.
- about a 2000 mile range.
- Island main bed plus two additional cabins.
- Easily the interior space of a 55' monohul sailboat

Not 100% of what you called for but a lot.
This is all in a boat not really marketed for long ocean crossings.
Not even close to acceptable and double the cost of what we have
Essentially half the boat for twice as much money.

2003 Endeavour Trawlercat 44 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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