Why Marinas Hate Liveaboards - Part II

[MoonlightShadow]

It would appear to me that you have more serious liveaboard problems in the USA than we do this side of the Pond. Or, maybe I just haven't noticed any issues over here.

In the UK, a permanent liveaboard, in a boat that isn't fit for sea, would require planning permission from the Local Authority.

[David_Old_Jersey]

If it's a commercial operation (i.e. set up to make money and not as communal social resource) then I think not only reasonable to pre-screen potential liveaboards but commercial stupidity not to.

Of course good T&C's still required to deal with those who slip through or go bad ("When Liveaboards go Bad!" - sounds like a good CF thread title ). And I would make 'em as brutal as legally possible...........along the lines of:

- Cars cannot remain in same parking space for more than 24 hours, without written ($$$ ) authorisation and subject to clamping, then towing and then sale.

- anything left unattended on the dock (or without written ($$$ ) authorisation) will be cleared away and disposed of within 7 days.

- No Bicycles stored on deck (or on the dock).

- Marina can add additional docklines at (exorbitant? ) cost at own discretion.

- All vessels must be maintained in seaworthy condition and therefore capable of leaving the dock under own power within 1 week (unless written exception for a planned refit)

...........the idea is not in practice to enforce all this 24/7, but provides the capacity to nail offenders to a tree in a way that at least mitigates the problem, if they stay around.

Of course over here have an easy answer to Liveaboards - it's illegal But like so much, enforcement of that depends..........

[MoonlightShadow]

Hi David,

Is it illegal to liveaboard in Jersey then? Gosh, I have broken that law in the past then.

When I was a mere teenager we spent about six months in St Aubins living aboard in an old Trawler. Those were the days...

[SimonV]

When does a cruiser on a break, become a live aboard. I was under the impression that in california the harbour masters required all boats to prove their sea worthyness every 6 mths a yea rby leaving the harbour under thier own power passing the leads and returning to their berth. At least is was when I was at Berkeley Ca in 2008.

[virginia boy]

The Potomac river here in Washington has extremely limited opportunities for liveaboards and so most are forced to commute an hour or so from Annapolis and surrounding areas. Over the last two years we have become friendly with a marina run by the national park service who absolutely don't allow living aboard. Or so we thought! We just found out that not only are there a few liveaboards but we were given the grand tour of the supposedly nonexistent shower facilities. I think we're gonna get in. Walking distance to the subway too!

So I guess it's a case of who ya know and passing the pre-screening!

[MoonlightShadow]

When does someone who stays aboard become a liveaboard - as you say Simon, that is a most significant question. The definition seems to differ depending where you are. Does the vessel ever go out to sea or wherever, and how often, are the defining factors I would suggest.

Most of us on here are by definition "Cruisers" who might live aboard, but regularly sail off into the wide blue yonder, stopping somewhere for a bit as the fancy and/or work/family dictates.

I would also suggest that most of us keep quite tidy boats because we do use them as boats, not just for living aboard.

Some marinas I know, say they "dont allow liveaboards", but in fact have several - they use this statement in order to have some say about just who is living aboard, as they dont want their place to decend into a floating ghetto town.

At the end of the day, its how we behave, that sets us apart from the dishevelled appearance of some boats.

If, however, we make the marina look like a junkyard, you can imagine the owner's getting upset. And, that is not solely the domain of the liveaboard - we are getting quite few more "abandoned looking" boats recently. and I wonder if the marina owners are getting paid for them still.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by MoonlightShadow

Hi David,

Is it illegal to liveaboard in Jersey then? Gosh, I have broken that law in the past then.

When I was a mere teenager we spent about six months in St Aubins living aboard in an old Trawler. Those were the days...

Bloody Foreigners - all Criminals Hope you are now going to do the decent thing and turn yourself in Ignorance of the law no defence etc etc.

In practice of course the law is designed to cater for circumstances like yours - The Jersey way:-

"it ain't a crime if you don't get caught"
"if you don't bother anyone else, no one will bother you"

If there had been a problem you would have heard about it


Appreciate that in some cultures (no names ), that if folk don't get Permission from their Govt they don't feel free - but that not a universal thing, fortunately

[kenny chaos]

Originally Posted by MoonlightShadow

It would appear to me that you have more serious liveaboard problems in the USA than we do this side of the Pond. Or, maybe I just haven't noticed any issues over here.
.

It's a typical USA thing.
If you are less fortunate than me, you are a bottom dweller, scum, sleezoid, of no character, etc., etc..
If you are more fortunate than me, you don't get called names (I fear you) but I sorta resent you for displacing me and because you have more money.
Getting upset for seeing a man naked in the bathroom or seeing other's underwear is just plain funny.
It's like class warfare on the high seas.
I have an opinion also, no real man goes anywhere, for anything, while dressed in that feminine looking golf type apparel.

[boatman61]

In the UK in general if you've a smaller boat (under 32ft) it gets very hard to find a live aboard berth... they'll turn a blind eye if your over that size or post 2000.... lol..
In the last 30yrs its been a downwards spiral... thats why I sailed away.. used to live on board and work quite happily for years... but one by one the Marina's/yards were bought out and developed for the W/end warriors who... to be quite honest... don't want us around.
We don't dress right... we're to casual in our manoeuvres.... and worst of all we're a constant reminder of what they're unable to do...
Yachties and live-aboards are like chalk and cheese...

[MoonlightShadow]

Boatman, did you have that problem on the East Coast or in Yacty world (South Coast?)

Around here they are a bit up themselves in The Royal Burnham and Royal Corinthian (Blue Flag) Clubs, but elswhere, and where I am we all get on fine together.

I do remember being in Poole Town Quay Marina and being the cheapest boat in the Marina (by about a million pounds), but they were still all very friendly and had no problems. We were alongside a couple of £8/10 million Sunseekers, with The Royal Yacht Bloodhound behind us and an Admirals Cup boat and an Open 60 beside us. Obviously we felt dutifully humble and all that, touching our forlocks appropriately, but no one ever complained about us, despite the fact that we came in with a foot of water in the bottom and everything soaking wet, and had all the upholstery out on the pontoon to dry out, sleeping bags up the mast, and then filled the washroom with soap bubbles when we washed everything. Made some new friends there as well. A big superyacht also lent us an electric heater as we had flooded everything on the boat. I cant knock them at all, they were all good people.

[zeehag]

in kali, is county by county and city by city, as in every other place in this country. most places in kali except private marinas can take up to 10 percent of slippage MAY go for liveaboard .... not necessarily done. is up to marina .... the number is becoming smaller . there was a thing trying to be pushed to limit liveaboard slips to 35 ft or longer. i dont know if it took off, s i went to buy a 35 ft boat then.... now i have 41. we are not sposed to liveaboard on our moorings, yet around 50 percent do that. that will be next "rule" to enforce.
cruisers are considered liveaboards. they do live on board. is a form of living aboard while in motion,,, and sometimes not in motion. even if the cruiser owns a home, as long as he/she is on board, they are living/cruising on the boat. whiloe they ar cruising, they will be on board, therefore is a liveaboard slip needed.

[Lexam]

I wonder if RV'ers have the same problem in RV parks.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by MoonlightShadow

...........................I would also suggest that most of us keep quite tidy boats because we do use them as boats, not just for living aboard..........................

This statement is very meaningful, but also the source of much misunderstanding. There are many live aboards, such as myself, who have had no shore home for decades, but also use their homes for boating and keep them tidy. I doubt that most people looking at my boat in a slip would think of it as a "liveaboard". I keep nothing on the dock and my deck is clear. Because of this many people only "see" the junky boats as liveaboards and they are left without a clear understanding of what a liveaboard may be. As MoonlightShadow points out, those that are only using boats as low income housing and not as operating vessels can present a bad image for living aboard. Also, many who genuinely attempt to be successful cruisers and live aboards are unable to neatly adapt to the space and they can fail at living aboard because their boats are overwhelmed with their debris. Like Boatman61, I don't adhere to the restrictive values of "yacht etiquette" and I enjoy the freedoms of the carefree cruising life. 'living aboard since 1972, but never with junk about or the burden of excessive ownership...

[boatman61]

MoonLight.... it was the Sth Coast... as to Poole Town Quay... nice place.. pulled in there a few times to top my water tanks... choosing my moment to dart between the Brownsea Ferry and Hardy's etc tripper and fishing boats... lol
but I'm refering more to the marina's in Holes Bay and in the Harbour itself... Town Quay's more transient..
As for the East Coast.. never had a problem... but then I'm limited to as far as Felixstowe... and usually 'passing thro'...
The social status of the 'liveaboard' is quite a way below that of the 'Propa Folk' in the offices etc....
But apart from that... I'm not easy to like...

[sailorman14]

About 15 years ago they tried to remove all liveaboards from a marina in north west Florida. After a couple of months, one of the couples took them to court and it was discovered that the State of Florida did not have a definition for the term "liveaboard" so the marina was told they could not remove those people. Since the boating industry in Florida is so big, Boat US has been able to pressure the State Legislature to stop cities from making it illegal to anchor in the waters around the State. If you read the US Code, it states that the "People" own all the navigatable waterways up to and including 50' of the high water mark including all the rivers and tributaries that run into it. So technically all the water along the intercoastal waterway is "Federal" property and belong to you and I.
This is another area that we should demand that the government give back to us for our use. I suggest we make a national park out of all waterways around this country and get the control away from the States. Maybe we can start a movement????
Sailormn14