Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-01-2011, 21:00   #61
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,594
Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
it's about not making as much money as your greedy palms would prefer. You are the problem.
Run a business much?

If you were responsible for running a marina, I suspect you'd have a very different outlook on liveaboards.
__________________

__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2011, 21:07   #62
Registered User
 
callmecrazy's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Tartan 30
Posts: 1,548
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Run a business much?

If you were responsible for running a marina, I suspect you'd have a very different outlook on liveaboards.
I actually do run a business. Not a marina, but I do residential remodeling. I'm the guy that does all the work the big contractors won't do, because they are too pompous to work in the ghetto, or to do "small" jobs that don't justify sending 12 guys to do a 1 man job....

If I were in the marina business, I would be glad to have you around, to send me all the "livaboard" types and deal with their social quarks... "they" pay rent like everybody else....
__________________

__________________
My Blog
callmecrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2011, 21:18   #63
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,594
Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
If I were in the marina business, I would be glad to have you around, to send me all the "livaboard" types and deal with their social quarks... "they" pay rent like everybody else....
Yes, of course they do. And they also frequently have their bikes and kayaks and tools and coolers and junk all over the docks. They suck up many, many times the utilities and parking spots that non-liveaboard tenants do etc., etc. The list goes on and on. Certainly it's not fair to generalize about all liveaboards and most are probably upstanding, considerate citizens and dock neighbors. But I spend a lot of time in a lot of different marinas and it's very easy for me to understand why some marinas do not allow any liveaboards, much less screen them.
__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2011, 21:21   #64
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,129
im guessing you both are kinda missing the point and both kinda arrogant, as we all are at times...

larger companies/contractors arent 'pompous', (and thats a generalization you made) they are bigger andhave bigger overhead, and cant make enough money on one or two man jobs..

there are niches in every field and business.

there are larger marinas and they want larger boats and richer clintele that dont use thier boats/slips much, and are less 'headaches', i.e. less work so the manager can handle more boats then a marina that has 'needy' livaboards... you will need more people to handle more needy boaters...

erego less profit margin or less money for overhead.

however you think about it
__________________
Bergovoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2011, 21:26   #65
Moderator Emeritus
 
hummingway's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gabriola Island & Victoria, British Columbia
Boat: Cooper 416 Honeysuckle
Posts: 6,933
Images: 5
Watch that this doesn't degrade into name calling folks. The thread won't last if you do.
Thanks.
__________________
“We are the universe contemplating itself” - Carl Sagan

hummingway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2011, 21:33   #66
Registered User
 
Lexam's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas City, MO
Boat: In my dreams
Posts: 92
It's all about perspective. Liveaboards might sound bad, but what if the marinas had to deal with livingdeadaboards? No one wants zombies on their boats.
__________________
Lexam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2011, 21:33   #67
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
As a former liveaboard in San Diego, PNW and Mexico, your next door liveaboard is no different than a shoreside neighbor. Some are tidy, some aren't. Some watch out for their fellow liveaboards, some could care less and wouldn't lift a finger to help. Our experience with marina management in all three countries is very positive. They appreciate the 24 hour security, the friendships that develop and the extra effort liveaboards bring to help the enterprise run with a minimum of problems. It is quickly evident who are cruisers stopping over for a few months and those who are posers looking for cheap accommodation. I only recall one case of a liveaboard being evicted due to his unwillingness to meet even the most basic standards of cleanliness and keeping his dockside clear of clutter. Interestingly, the folks that blew the whistle on the non-holding tank users were the guys who cleaned hulls and changed out zincs. Catalina Island solved the problem with dye pills in the heads which turned a brilliant green when pumped overboard. They have the cleanest harbor in all of CA... Capt Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2011, 21:37   #68
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergovoy View Post
im guessing you both are kinda missing the point and both kinda arrogant...
Bill, do I have to remind you that you wouldn't even know about this forum if I hadn't turned you onto it a few weeks ago and that I earn my living in marinas and therefore know of which I speak?
__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2011, 21:39   #69
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
Interestingly, the folks that blew the whistle on the non-holding tank users were the guys who cleaned hulls and changed out zincs.
Nothing surprising in the least about this, from my perspective.
__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2011, 22:13   #70
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Off and on, mostly on, I've spent more than a decade living aboard in marinas.

In my experience, if a furler came unwound in the middle of the storm, it was the liveaboards who went out and wrestled the sail down. When it was time to call the police or the fire department, it was the liveaboards who did it. One time, when a boat came back from a race and knocked over the fire plug at the end of their slip, setting loose a 50' geyser, the skipper ran to my dock to get me to turn off the water, rather than running to the harbor office, because he knew I'd know how to cut the water off while whomever was minding the office probably wouldn't be able to do anything more than leave a voicemail for the harbormaster.

When sneakaboards started trying to live on their boats without paying the liveaboard fee, it was the liveaboards who would turn them in, just because we didn't want to be associated with people who would cheat the marina. When sleezoids lived on their boats for weeks and weeks without ever once visiting the pump-out, we'd turn them in too, because we didn't want to be associated with that sort of behavior either.

There are marinas where liveaboards are highly valued, mostly because they've earned the esteem of their fellow boaters and the marina management. And there are marinas where liveaboards are considered scum, because they've done very little to earn respect.

It's that simple.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2011, 22:18   #71
Registered User
 
GeoPowers's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Gulfport, MS
Boat: Beneteau 393
Posts: 947
Images: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
this is truly a pathetic way of thinking... I guess if one or two people do something, then "they" all must do the same thing, right?

I understand screening people to meet your social qualifications, thats your prerogative... but you are clearly defining "liveaboards" as a single class, or social group that should not only be judged, but monitored for acceptance... It's not about being "bottom feeders", it's about not making as much money as your greedy palms would prefer. You are the problem.

I didn't get any money issues out of clsailor's post at all. Also, not everyone lives aboard to save money. I find it quite difficult to save money living on a boat!!

I'd like to point out there is a straightforward correlation between the frequency a live-aboard actually gets underway and the condition/tidiness/seaworthiness of their boat. People who actually use their boat tend to be the liveaboards I like to associate with, and the ones I would speculate marinas prefer. If I were screening applicants I think this simple question would tell all that was needed.

Liveaboards DO use more marina resources than dirt dwellers. I feel like this is ok when I pay an extra live-aboard surcharge, but I also make an effort to reduce my "footprint" on the marina out of respect for those that don't liveaboard. I have always tried to break the liveaboard stigma of lowlife scum on a derelict boat. But it is not always easy. Frankly, I am embarrassed by some liveaboards. Some act act like the shower/bathhouse is their own, leave crap in the laundry, and take up the prime parking spots with cars that never move. Not to mention some of the derelicts that people live on that couldn't get underway safely...and don't even get me started on those who seem to only pump-out every month or two! Your neighbors can smell you breaking the law!

I hate to say it, but if I were a manager of a marina, I would likely have an official policy of "no liveaboards", but allow those that could be passed off as "cruisers taking a one-year breather" by someone glancing at their yacht.

Frank (a liveaboard)
GeoPowers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2011, 23:46   #72
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,129
Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Bill, do I have to remind you that you wouldn't even know about this forum if I hadn't turned you onto it a few weeks ago and that I earn my living in marinas and therefore know of which I speak?
remind me?

I guess so?, did you tell me your username? if so, sorry... didnt mean to ignore ya'.

and thanks for the referral... I like all the help i'm getting here, as you can see...
__________________
Bergovoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2011, 01:01   #73
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,894
I think the ones who really HATE liveaboards the most here in Asia are the dock boys and day crew of the boats beside them.

They just don’t have the same freedom to party, fish, sleep, steal fuel etc… that they normally would have, in case a liveaboard owner should talk to their boss.

It can be a little mafia at the bigger yacht clubs so you learn to maintain a blind eye to those around you and a sharp eye on those who work for you.
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2011, 01:04   #74
Registered User
 
capnorv's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bainbridge Island Washington on the Salish Sea
Boat: Hardin 45 Voyager Alice B., Gig Harbor 10, Orca 7 1/2 sloop, 16' sea kayak
Posts: 364
Images: 1
We lived aboard for five years, the only problem was on our initial arrival. We sailed in, because our engine had seized. Management wanted us to leave right away because we didn't come in under power. We had a hard time convincing them we'd expedite repairs, finally granting us 30 days to install a new engine. I've paid $15, $50, $85, and $100/ month to liveaboard, plus some parking fees. I believe livaboards can be a marina asset, but don't appreciate cluttered docks, Anymore than the guy whose anchor is 4' on the dock at temple level, and he hasn't seen his boat in 2-3 years. There are good and bad of all kinds. Right now my boats looking pretty dingy because the water pipes broke a month or so ago, and I don't like the looks of that either! But I can live with all of them, maybe we all need to become a little more tollerant...instead of less.
__________________
capnorv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2011, 01:27   #75
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Port Townsend, WA
Boat: 37' Samson, Ferro
Posts: 69
Images: 9
Using common sense and courtesy toward your boating neighbors goes a long way. I hang sleeping bags but not my underwear. I hang towels too but not all day. I do what I need, when I need it and put it away as soon as i can. I don't leave my boat looking like a gypsy camp and nobody has ever complained to me.

As for 'wrecks'? Look up definition of 'derelict vessel'. In my opinion, a super yacht is much mor appealing than a broken, leaking, rusted, moss covered, sea otter poop covered, rotting derelict vessel that is at risk of becoming a navigational hazard. Whats the environmental difference of a 60' Cat or a 60' Swan? If I had the money I would take one. I have an insured 37' Ferro Cement that gets great compliments yet the vast majority would consider it an unsound risk.

Sneuman said the the attitude towards liveaboards has improved. I think goes proportional with the laws and regulations that have made liveaboards a 'bad thing'. We will always have the Gypsy boater, no law will eradicate them, However, the liveabords that care are paying attention and making concesions to ensure that their way of life is protected. Hence, a better attitude.

I have salvaged, towed and destroyed derelicts...I have warned liveaboards on derelicts and watched them drift away after heavy storm winds only to sink. If the law would ENFORCE and/or rewrite the derelict vessel program more then the liveaboard problems may go away as a result.
__________________

__________________
Borealis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
marinas

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why Do Marinas Seem to Hate Liveaboards? sneuman Liveaboard's Forum 211 11-12-2017 20:17
Clean Marinas and Liveaboards stuffinbox Marinas 23 09-06-2009 23:07
UK Flagged Yacht in Caribbean - Part 1 or Part 111 Registration? Ukabroad Training, Licensing & Certification 9 01-11-2008 08:55
Hate to say it! windthief Construction, Maintenance & Refit 26 25-03-2007 21:48
Hate the cold? cat man do General Sailing Forum 4 18-02-2007 06:11



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:47.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.