Why is Planing Ability Important in a Dinghy?

[Suijin]

The pros and cons of higher horsepower have been covered pretty well. I'll add one point, which is that while it does not necessarily take a lot of horsepower to keep a RIB up on plane, it can take a lot to get it up on plane, and once you are on plane you can throttle back to a modest speed and stay on plane. You don't have to zip along at 20 knots, but you still get much better fuel efficiency and a smoother dryer ride. Also, on a 10-11' RIB, the added weight of a higher horsepower engine is largely immaterial.

For myself, I have a 9.5' hard bottom and an 8hp Yamaha 2 stroke. It works for me *most* of the time. When the dink is loaded up with two people and diving gear I sure would like to have a 15, no doubt about it. But I don't have davits and don't have a motor crane. I have to hand the motor up. If I come across a 15 two stroke I might jump on it, as it's usually just the same motor with wider jets. Same weight.

I can't put davits on my boat as I have a monitor wind vane on the back, and it's far more important to me than davits, and it's an either/or proposition (could have both, but can't use both at the same time).

My middle of the road solution was to fabricate a hoist for the dingy on the side. Made a pole out of PVC that attaches to the spinnaker pole track, with one of the spin halyards on the other end. then tackle from there to the dink. Swing the pole out, lift the dink and either keep it alongside but out of the water to "park" it, or swing it on the foredeck to stow it. The pole is light and easily stowed when not in use.

Next addition is a motor crane/lift off the stern. I'm not getting any younger and at some point I won't be able to lift a 60lb. motor up on deck and wrestle in onto the stern pushpit mount.

So for the OP, maybe just adding the motor lift is the least invasive (and less expensive) solution depending on his needs.

Every solution is a compromise based on your specific needs and setup. Sure we'd all love to have a dinghy garage under the cockpit... :P

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by colemj

If your dinghy package fits your activities, that is great. I was responding to your comments that you are baffled why others don't have your small, slow setup. The answer is because some of us use ours in ways you do not - it really isn't very baffling.

Fair enough. Perhaps I chose my words poorly. I'm not baffled, I'm just amused .

BTW, having had many inflatables I can assure you the portabote handles rough seas just as well (or as poor) as similar sized inflatables. And there are tube videos of people using them for scuba diving (I'm not a diver). I'm not trying to sell them. I'm just trying to respond to the OP's initial question regarding the need for planning dingy. It's not necessary for everyone. It depend on who you are, and what you want.

[Greggegner]

We had a fold-a-boat. It was a nice boat, wife didn't care for it as much as I did. The side flexing bothered her. It doesn't take much hp to get them on plane. Also the seats are high enough to be comfortable for three big guys.


Greg S/V Sweet Dreams
Pearson P385 out of Racine Wisconsin

[donradcliffe]

We had a 10.5 ft RIB with big tubes to keep us dry. We carried BOTH a 3.5 and an 18 hp outboard. We used the 3.5hp over 95% of the time.

The advantages for the 3.5--

Carry it with one hand (28 lbs)

Not going to be the outboard that gets stolen

Uses less fuel

I could pull the RIB up on the beach myself (engine and aluminum RIB weighs 130 lbs)

The big outboard was in reserve for when we wanted to go scuba diving over half a mile away, or the dinghy ride was over a mile, or the wind was over 30k, or we wanted to tow (push) a big boat. It was barely broken in after 10 years of liveaboard cruising.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I'm just trying to respond to the OP's initial question regarding the need for planning dingy. It's not necessary for everyone. It depend on who you are, and what you want.

Yes, I also suggested a portabote and small outboard to the OP

Mark

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by colemj

I fully agree that the dinghy package should be fit to the boat for safety purposes above all other needs.

However, there are boats <65ft that can carry a larger dinghy package safely. Our 40' catamaran has an arch/davit that can safely lift and hold >1,000lbs, and the dinghy (300lbs) is rock steady on it 6' above the water. The sterns extend 7' past the dinghy, so there is plenty buoyancy - it would take a very extreme storm to get waves into the dinghy, at which point we would be swimming in the cockpit.

Mark

Yes, davits work much better (and do much less aesthetic damage, since there's no beauty to spoil ) on cats. I guess you might say that a RIB on sturdy davits on a cat of 40' or more (say) is already a solution without big drawbacks.

On monos, the situation with dingy storage is much worse. You've got several choices, none of which is very good. We had a thread on this recently, IIRC, I think it was a subplot on my thread about the ideal 65' cruising boat. Either no davits and a folding (portabote) or roll-up inflatable, or a very tiny dinghy you can stow in chocks or inverted on deck on a larger mono, or a proper rib but on davits. Each choice has serious drawbacks for the mono sailor -- so you have to pick which is the least bad for you. I have the proper rib (with wheel steering no less) on powered davits, but I hate the davits. Even on my biggish boat, they look hideous, they add a lot of windage, they add a lot of mass way out at the end of the boat, and they are very failure-prone. Although I've never had green water in my dinghy (davits are pretty high), there is a lot of stress on them when going hard upwind in strong conditions. It's a very, very compromised solution.


CarstenB of this parish was sailing with me this summer and suggested extending my pushpit out so that the dink could be stored in chocks on the afterdeck, with one tube hanging over the taffrail. Mine is probably just about the smallest boat with which one could get away with such a move, and I'm studying the idea. Sure dream about deep-sixing those infernal davits.

[FilBrown]

I manage to get a 2.9 metre inflatable with a solid floor and inflatable keel up on the plane with a 5hp 2 stroke Yamaha. Its ok when I'm alone with a small load but anything extra and and we'r back to chugging along.

I've been curious about fitting two identical smaller engines on an inflatable.
If there's the room it would make them easier to manhandle around the boat & dinghy and when travelling longer distances give the greater security of having a "spare" if one breaks down.

Anyone here tried it?

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Fair enough. Perhaps I chose my words poorly. I'm not baffled, I'm just amused .

BTW, having had many inflatables I can assure you the portabote handles rough seas just as well (or as poor) as similar sized inflatables. And there are tube videos of people using them for scuba diving (I'm not a diver). I'm not trying to sell them. I'm just trying to respond to the OP's initial question regarding the need for planning dingy. It's not necessary for everyone. It depend on who you are, and what you want.

Mike, I am seriously considering a Portabote as my dink. I've read the responses here on inflatables, ribs, etc. and everyone makes a decision for their own reasons (although some just follow the herd).

I know all the advantages of the Portabote. What constraints have you had that you wished were different? As example, I understand they can be a bit frustrating to put together, at least at first.

[zeehag]

all i can say is please try it out first.
then decide.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I'm always amused and, like you, curious about this apparent dichotomy. We have people who have purposely chosen a small sailboat -- possibly the slowest way to travel anywhere -- who then "need" to have a fast zippy dingy to get to shore, buzz the anchorages, or get out to the fishing grounds. I admit, I too don't get it .

FTR, I have a 10' portabote and a 4-stroke 3.5hp engine. It planes with one person in it, and I've even had it up with two adults on flat calm days. But this engine moves us plenty fast with a full load, and so far, no wet-undies syndrome. I can easily lift the engine off and on without a crane. Seems to sip gas. Best of all it rows well, is very tough, and stores well on the mothership.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Suijin

The pros and cons of higher horsepower have been covered pretty well.:P

Not quite.

It's FUN to go fast!

We had a WM 8'-4" donut with a 1.2 Johnson outboard, the one with nothing but forward gear, for many years. Took us forever to get places, but we were in no hurry. We called the outboard our eggbeater!

Now have a 10'-2" Zodiac airfloor, 9.9 hp Evinrude 2 stroke. Love the rig, still can't ZOOM in some places, but when we can, it is FUN!

I'm 68 years old going on 13! I love sailing, but love zooming, too.

And, for zee, I love to row too, but the Zodiac's oarlocks suck! I like the old pin style on the WM donut much better.

Zoom, zoom...

[thinwater]

Big is nice. I'm not going to argue that. Somedays a little more hp and a v-bottom would be nice. A rock-proof bottom would be nice, but...

What I have not heard is a description of one person loading or unloading a dink from the deck in less than a minute. That is what davits do for you. What I have seen is hoisting off the engine and then 2 people craning the dingly with halyards ad poles. I have also seen that deck mounted dingies get less use for the above reason, at least in some cases. Heck, I often grab a kayak because it is even less bother.

For me, with a disabled wife and a lot of solo sailing, any 2 person job is a non-starter. Yes, I can get the dink on deck alone--I've done it--but I would not chose to and would miss the deck space.

I'm also confused by cruising boat designers that think davits and dodgers are add-ons. Kinna like designing a house without a laundry room; these are core functions.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Hmmm, so it would take me an hour or two to get out there. If I wanted to go that bad, then I would go. But it's absolutely true that a small dink and engine means I can't do some things. So? Same goes with any choice. Your dink and engine would be inadequate compared to a coast guard zodiac with double 80 hp engines. All choices come with limits. It's just a question of what you want/need.

I'm not trying to pick a fight. If you need to get out to the reef quickly, then get the bigger dink/engine. I'll be happily putting along at my own pace .

When is the last time you saw the power on a USCG rib,twin black engines? I can only guess at what the forward mount holds. I think it's stowed in the water tight locker. Make a great dink.

[Vasco]

Fifty million cruisers can't be wrong.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I just did a Google image search for "dinghy dock". I suggest you do it and have a look at the dinghies in he docks.
Very rare to find a Portaboat. WHY???
Rare to fine a teeny-weeny outboard. WHY???




If the vast majority of cruisers are buying a similar style of item is it because its better? Or because you who hasn't yet gone cruising knows better?




PS the photo off Google is pretty damn well known its the first "real" cruising destination for many north Americans... And probably one of he best dinghy docks in the world, opposite a fuel station, free fresh water on the dinghy dock and the land end of thedock has the towns biggest supermarket! Bliss!!! BUT its a MILE over rough water to get there!
Name it


Mark

Yep, I keep saying it everytime this comes up. Everyone seems to go thru the same set of mistakes before they get there. airfloor, small wet hard dingy etc etc. Cheaper to go to the real solution first... but I didnt either! I don't mean to say for a few (very few) rowing or other options don't work out....