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Old 17-05-2016, 12:41   #76
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Part of it is a "love affair" and then there is the 20% rule of thumb, which in my experience, has been pretty accurate. Most electronics are obsolete or the victim of salt air/water damage after a few years and need to be replaced. Bright work, if it is to be maintained, requires a lot of attention and then there are the normal things like pumps and engine maintenance. Good batteries last for approximately 5 years and then start losing their charge. Wiring is always susceptible to degradation and needs replacement. Upholstery, with normal wear and tear, starts to break down and or fade after 5-7 years. If you find a conscientious, caring owner, you are probably much better off buying a well equipped quality boat then going new----and then having to equip it. But then I know sailors who would never consider buying a used boat--so go figure??
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Old 18-05-2016, 12:38   #77
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Suckerability is a major avenue of sales for anything, with whole industries built and flourishing. Men's major follies being women and egos, and boats being akin to women, and desperate people desperately doing things. Read my book Suckernamics and vote for me to make sailing great again
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Old 18-05-2016, 13:36   #78
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

I think most of it has to do, that when you replace the salon cushions you see a chain plate bolt... and then directly you have a boat hauled up for a repower, and new standing rigging. While you are at it, you see a paint blister from a new angle and end up with a new top side paint job. Then the deck looks dingy... May as well lead everything aft while you are doing paint work.

Sort of like how on a motorcycle a leaking base gasket, means a top end re-fresh and new cam...

These things just take their natural progression until you run out of money.

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Old 18-05-2016, 22:45   #79
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

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Originally Posted by Coconutmunky View Post
Suckerability is a major avenue of sales for anything, with whole industries built and flourishing. Men's major follies being women and egos, and boats being akin to women, and desperate people desperately doing things. Read my book Suckernamics and vote for me to make sailing great again
I know you're joking but some version of what you're saying is probably correct. Slip fees alone (at least in California) make it clear that the majority of boat owners are not behaving rationally.

At least, it seems to be the case that there are distinct and very different boat markets which, nevertheless, impact each other. There's the well off doctor who probably incurs higher slip fees than maintenance fees and then there's the cruiser/liveaboard who goes through boat parts as fast as socks.

I hope you'll forgive me if I'm distorting or oversimplifying the picture. This is an outsider's perspective.

Those doctors, presumably, are responsible for the majority of new boat sales. As little as they use the boat, and this is not to disparage them but to consider it as a boat manufacturer might, a typical new Beneteau will last them a lifetime. It may even be that many of the systems on their boats will be obsolete before they actually wear out.

Meanwhile, the cruiser/liveaboard market seems bifurcated into very expensive boats one one side and very old boats on the other, in both cases probably a bi-product of their relatively small numbers.

Here, for example, is a brand new Beneteau Oceanis 35 (Sailboats Oceanis 35 - Sailing Yacht Beneteau), an amazingly pretty boat that has a lot to offer at a really low price.

And here's a page full of Southerly 110s, the very cheapest of which is the same as the entry price for the B, but for a nearly 20 year old boat.
Southerly 110 Boats For Sale

I won't even mention the assortment of double enders and such that people usually talk about for cruising because the quality of life on them is simply not comparable. They are, to the last, dark and gloomy and offer environments that would drive a sailor to drink if sailors were not already so inclined. At least the Southerly would be a nice place to BE, and the Beneteau more so.

So I think you're probably right, not about suckers as such about the idea that the boat market is dominated by people who are not really thinking about lifetime costs the way a cruiser might or the way they might for their own home or car.

Anyway, that's how it looks from the perspective of someone who has spent a few months perusing the market but who has never owned a boat.
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Old 19-05-2016, 07:42   #80
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

I don't think most sailors can manage to maintain their boats in a real way, so it's a few more dollars or cheaper to just replace stuff after a lifetime of neglect, if you can do the basic work yourself then you can save big$$, yards are like car stealerships, oh you gotta do this and that and give us all your $$$$$
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Old 20-05-2016, 04:02   #81
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Well I will probably get kicked, spat at, brutalized and more for this, but I am new so…………………..you get the picture!


Firstly all people sugarcoat the ***** they are about to sell. The house owner slaps on a coat of paint directly over the old paint without preparation, replaces three shingles on the roof and tada! So now the ad reads, Full restoration that includes total roof replacement and much more do not……………..


The Landlord that just kicked out the squatters buys a few through rugs at the dollar store and scatters them through the hell hole and the ad reads, Newly refurbished family home in a quite friendly part of town, children and animals welcome…………….


Then I read the rest and it seems that there are two kinds of sailors/buyers here.

1: The guy that needs a boat that turns real well in the marina and has all the latest gadgets and gismos onboard, spare none and it should not be older than six months or the Joneses will be ahead and that is a big no no!


Furthermore they need to have equity, investments, property, gold bullion, fluidity and to top it all of a tax haven, why? Because something might happen. They sail the Med and then pay a delivery skipper to sail it to the Caribbean for the season there and on and on…………..


2: The second is the one that reads the add gets a surveyor to make sure the hull, rigging, engine and steering is fine. Then bargains and buys, cuts all ties with the land by selling everything and then sails far, wide, hard and long……………


This second one seems to be an idiot as he does not subscribe to the bling or twelve year financial safety net building scheme, but we find them all through history with names like Joshua Slocum, Alberto Torroba, James Baldwin, Hans Klaar………………………..


I am confused but will keep returning for more, need to read, yes, I need to read!
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Old 20-05-2016, 04:25   #82
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

In our case all new Raymarine instruments & plotter were installed within a year of selling our old boat. The plotter went in 1 week before I convinced my OH to consider a larger boat which was available very near us. We used that plotter for precisely one afternoon before buying the new boat. The ads were entirely honest, and a hell of a deal for the buyer who got her. It happens.

But still verify the claims.
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Old 20-05-2016, 05:38   #83
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

There is an old saying that I'm sure I can't spell!

CAVEAT EMPTOR, "Buyer beware"
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Old 20-05-2016, 06:47   #84
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

I think since we are a buyer today and become a seller tomorrow ;-) we are all well aware of how it goes ...

Perhaps that's where haggling steps in.

So how much do you want for thar '61 Bavaria? ONE MILLION? MAAAAAN! I HAVE A WIFE AND 8 KIDS TO FEED!!!! C'mon now, all I can offer is 20 dollars ... DEAL?

;-)

And so on.

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Old 20-05-2016, 07:13   #85
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach View Post
I think most of it has to do, that when you replace the salon cushions you see a chain plate bolt... and then directly you have a boat hauled up for a repower, and new standing rigging. While you are at it, you see a paint blister from a new angle and end up with a new top side paint job. Then the deck looks dingy... May as well lead everything aft while you are doing paint work.

Sort of like how on a motorcycle a leaking base gasket, means a top end re-fresh and new cam...

These things just take their natural progression until you run out of money.


I call that "Creeping Elegance"

It's the bane of having anything old
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Old 20-05-2016, 08:20   #86
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

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Then I read the rest and it seems that there are two kinds of sailors/buyers here.

1: The guy that needs a boat that turns real well in the marina and has all the latest gadgets and gismos onboard, spare none and it should not be older than six months or the Joneses will be ahead and that is a big no no!


Furthermore they need to have equity, investments, property, gold bullion, fluidity and to top it all of a tax haven, why? Because something might happen. They sail the Med and then pay a delivery skipper to sail it to the Caribbean for the season there and on and on…………..


2: The second is the one that reads the add gets a surveyor to make sure the hull, rigging, engine and steering is fine. Then bargains and buys, cuts all ties with the land by selling everything and then sails far, wide, hard and long……………


This second one seems to be an idiot as he does not subscribe to the bling or twelve year financial safety net building scheme, but we find them all through history with names like Joshua Slocum, Alberto Torroba, James Baldwin, Hans Klaar………………………..

Maybe a separate thread on the econo-sociology of boating would be appropriate.

The view that's forming for me is that sailboats are a "positional good" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positional_good), which people buy to signal status and which they price accordingly.

But there is a peculiarity here. For a time, hardcore users (cruisers and circumnavigators) set standards for taste. They determined what is "good". But it seems another kind of hardcore user, the racer, has taken over a large part of that role.

At the high end, boat racing, like F1 racing, is so expensive that participation is itself a positional signal. Nevertheless the signal bleeds down and you get a phenomenon like the cruiser/racer style of boat, which is more or less the same thing as a sports sedan. This gives us gorgeous 35 ft boats with full galleys and dual helms.

Never mind that traditional hardcore users look at these and can't figure out what to do with them, or even disapprove of them. Those people no longer control the signal except among themselves, thus preserving the resale value of a handful of 40 year old boats, and in the matter of certain components where their preferences can still establish brands.
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Old 20-05-2016, 09:12   #87
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Well what about a classic from the 60's, restored, heard that was the new cool. Beautiful patina abound I got lots of hits on my ad, of coarse am guilty of using an old picture, but it was a test ad, just didn't look right with rusty all over from actually using our boat, just superficial from our anchor chain but butt uglies, got lots of calls though with one pic and a long list of work and gear Inc. A lot of the time might be the market where you're at, were in the most secluded place on earth so there's not much options, kinda why we got her in the first place, there weren't others in our range or anything of value for what they wanted. I saw an "opportunity" to fix what she did need and make a few dollars in the end, we will see though, the cosmetics are definitely taking more time than I hoped or wanted, everything else was quick and easy. It sure can be a pain to try and sell your boat and a huge motivating factor to get her tip top. Sometimes and some places you're bound to see the new owner again too. Seems like it will be easier to sell her asmost smaller boats tend to bebadly neglected or newer and way overpriced. But we shall see if this Gamble doubles down or belly's up.
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Old 20-05-2016, 10:17   #88
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

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Here, for example, is a brand new Beneteau Oceanis 35 (Sailboats Oceanis 35 - Sailing Yacht Beneteau), an amazingly pretty boat that has a lot to offer at a really low price.
From $ 130 850. I'll take 2 of the boats at $130. That IS low!!
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Old 20-05-2016, 10:31   #89
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Link didn't work, I assume you mean 130k? That will buy you a lot of multihull these days, not new though
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