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Old 16-05-2016, 20:58   #61
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Re: why do people do this?

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Originally Posted by first wind View Post
that's just bad decision making on the previous owner's part. if the new girlfriend doesn't like to sail, you certainly don't marry her! you tell her to shove off and find someone who does like sailing. priorities people! priorities!

i say that as in jest but, i'm really quite serious. when i was 16, i used to run into a lot of guys in their 30s and 40s at gas stations while filling up the tank on my first motorcycle. they'd invariably look at my bike with longing as they relate how their wife made them stop riding when they got married or had kids. made them! i vowed that would never happen to me. every girlfriend i ever got serious with got a talk when it was obviously getting serious. it went like this:

"i grew up on motorcycles and have been riding all of my life and will ride for the rest of it. if you ever try to make me give up riding, i will be gone so quick that the wind of my passing will mess up your hair."

it may sound mean but, it all comes down to this: i am what i am (and that's all that i am lol). if that isn't a good match for who you are, we should not be together. i will not betray myself for your convenience. happiness is finding someone that fits in with who you are; not in taking someone who doesn't and forcing them into compliance.
totally agree with your female compliance outlook...

unfortunately, or maybe not...I grew up riding motorcycles, sold my gorg '11 ninja 1000 1 1/2 yrs ago...done , finished....I couldn't drive anywhere near the speed limit, ever...but also...too many cell phones, too many idiots on fakebook driving cars...too many cars, too many idiots not paying attention...its crazy now...
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Old 16-05-2016, 21:06   #62
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

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Originally Posted by kalbahnov View Post
Iíd like to thank everybody for chiming in. Responses seem to fall into the fallowing categories:

- women (they divorce you. they donít, for some reason, share your passion for the floating treehouse Ö)
- life gets in the way. sometimes you really are getting the benefit of someone elseís refit
- the never ending refit is a fact of life
- brokers lie (and, as Scaramanga points out, selling boats is as hard as buying them)

The electronics debate may have some subtleties. Not sure I want to weigh in. For me the 3 year rule is probably valid, at least at this point in time. Ditto solar tech, and I wonder how long before I can ditch the diesel for something electric.

I suppose the truth is complicated, but the following points stuck with me:
- a clean and well organized engine area (and I assume the same goes for other parts of the boat) says something about the owner.
- details matter a lot (when was something installed? how well? why?)
check the chainplates, standing rigging, winches, hull and deck soundness....the things that basically comprise the essence of a vessel are what determines the actual worth. what good are new electronics if the deck is all delaminated ?
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Old 16-05-2016, 23:39   #63
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Re: why do people do this?

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We got a great boat at half the price the former owner paid. Only 600 hours on the engine and 300 on the genset. Practically new.

Still, a little schepticism won't hurt. Forget about adding any value to any three year old or older electronics onboard. Really, anything older than three years is obsolete. All pumps, macerators, waste hoses and impellers will need replacement.
As long as they provide dates and what they did, it's good info. I may not offer more if it has 4yr old electronics but good to know.

I do question the idea that anything older than 3yrs must be replaced. I might set aside some cash for a few items but I wouldn't expect to fully replumb a 3yr old boat.

There are a variety of reasons:
- Simple marketing (nothing wrong with it as long as you don't lie)
- More detail (A 5yr old engine on a 40yr old boat may not be new but it's drastically different than a 40yr old engine)
- Some just love their boats and want to brag on them a bit.
- Some did a major refit and then life changed.
- could be other reasons.
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Old 17-05-2016, 00:24   #64
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Re: why do people do this?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
As long as they provide dates and what they did, it's good info. I may not offer more if it has 4yr old electronics but good to know.

I do question the idea that anything older than 3yrs must be replaced. I might set aside some cash for a few items but I wouldn't expect to fully replumb a 3yr old boat.

There are a variety of reasons:
- Simple marketing (nothing wrong with it as long as you don't lie)
- More detail (A 5yr old engine on a 40yr old boat may not be new but it's drastically different than a 40yr old engine)
- Some just love their boats and want to brag on them a bit.
- Some did a major refit and then life changed.
- could be other reasons.
I didn't say "must be replaced," I wrote that electronics over three years old have no value in determining the sales price of a boat.

Big difference, but now that you bring it up, when electronic devices get to be over six years old, the marine environment turns them into useless junk. Unless the boat sits parked on someone's lawn miles inland.

Don't believe me? Here's a picture of the backside of a 12 year old chart plotter/radar repeater priced at a couple thousand dollars US. After only six seasons of use (3 years of total time in use) this is how it looks. The connectors are even worse and the screen is bubbled and streaked. What value would anyone place on something like this? Besides, you can't even purchase the chart cards anymore. I bought a replacement off eBay last season, just in case this piece **** the bed over the next two seasons, the one on eBay...... Was just as bad when it arrived, so the seller discounted it to $40 from $120. On an item which originally cost over $10,000 as part of a Furuno system. Now only the radar still works.

And I guess older waste hoses are just fine too... If you don't mind the inside of your boat smelling like raw sewage.
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Old 17-05-2016, 01:35   #65
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Re: why do people do this?

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I didn't say "must be replaced," I wrote that electronics over three years old have no value in determining the sales price of a boat.

Big difference, but now that you bring it up, when electronic devices get to be over six years old, the marine environment turns them into useless junk. Unless the boat sits parked on someone's lawn miles inland.

Don't believe me? Here's a picture of the backside of a 12 year old chart plotter/radar repeater priced at a couple thousand dollars US. After only six seasons of use (3 years of total time in use) this is how it looks. The connectors are even worse and the screen is bubbled and streaked. What value would anyone place on something like this? Besides, you can't even purchase the chart cards anymore. I bought a replacement off eBay last season, just in case this piece **** the bed over the next two seasons, the one on eBay...... Was just as bad when it arrived, so the seller discounted it to $40 from $120. On an item which originally cost over $10,000 as part of a Furuno system. Now only the radar still works.

And I guess older waste hoses are just fine too... If you don't mind the inside of your boat smelling like raw sewage.
From your original post: "Really, anything older than three years is obsolete. All pumps, macerators, waste hoses and impellers will need replacement."

You just described the NEED for complete replacement of the plumbing system.

As far as electronics, we have a VHF that was on the boat when we bought it 10yrs and 10,000miles ago. As far as I can tell it's original (ie: 20yrs old). Still works perfectly, so again, the 3yr rule doesn't apply for replacement of electronics. It's similar with other electronics including on previous boats.

This isn't to say stuff doesn't need to be replaced or repaired but 3yrs to replacement is just silly. It also doesn't mean you might not want to upgrade to newer more advanced devices but hardly a need in most cases.
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Old 17-05-2016, 02:03   #66
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Re: why do people do this?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
From your original post: "Really, anything older than three years is obsolete. All pumps, macerators, waste hoses and impellers will need replacement."

You just described the NEED for complete replacement of the plumbing system.

As far as electronics, we have a VHF that was on the boat when we bought it 10yrs and 10,000miles ago. As far as I can tell it's original (ie: 20yrs old). Still works perfectly, so again, the 3yr rule doesn't apply for replacement of electronics. It's similar with other electronics including on previous boats.

This isn't to say stuff doesn't need to be replaced or repaired but 3yrs to replacement is just silly. It also doesn't mean you might not want to upgrade to newer more advanced devices but hardly a need in most cases.
I stand by what I wrote. Our previous Hunter required replacement of all electronic gadgets and plumbing and so did our Oyster. All macerator pumps were frozen with **** and the plumbing stunk like sewage... Both boats. The toilets... were junk in need of rebuilding or macerator pump replacement. All sump, shower, bilge and gulper pumps... Frozen up junk. The VHF... Junk, chart plotter... junk. When I say junk... I mean junk that didn't work period.

Of course on the sails brochure everything stated to be "like new and working properly."

The OP is looking for experienced advice in buying a used boat.... There I gave him some honest advice having purchased two relatively newish used boats over the past six years. He didn't ask for an inventory list of used stuff on CF members boats. Which is what most have provided.

And if the OP or anyone else heads out to sea in a new to them used boat without first replacing all the impellers... that's simply foolish.
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Old 17-05-2016, 02:09   #67
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Re: why do people do this?

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I stand by what I wrote. Our previous Hunter required replacement of all electronic gadgets and plumbing and so did our Oyster. All macerator pumps were frozen with **** and the plumbing stunk like sewage... Both boats. The toilets... were junk in need of rebuilding or macerator pump replacement. All sump, shower, bilge and gulper pumps... Frozen up junk. The VHF... Junk, chart plotter... junk. When I say junk... I mean junk that didn't work period.

Of course on the sails brochure everything stated to be "like new and working properly."

The OP is looking for experienced advice in buying a used boat.... There I gave him some honest advice having purchased two relatively newish used boats over the past six years. He didn't ask for an inventory list of used stuff on CF members boats. Which is what most have provided.
Must have had real bad luck or bought total pieces of junk.

We are on our 3rd 30'+ boat, all over 10yrs old (latest over 30yrs old) and haven't experienced anything like what you describe. Maybe we just got lucky.
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Old 17-05-2016, 02:11   #68
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Re: why do people do this?

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Must have had real bad luck or bought total pieces of junk.

We are on our 3rd 30'+ boat, all over 10yrs old (latest over 30yrs old) and haven't experienced anything like what you describe. Maybe we just got lucky.
Your post looks foolish.
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Old 17-05-2016, 02:15   #69
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Facing the same dilemma, can for instance a 30 yr. old Morgan 38 with a reasonable amount of upgrades and maintenance maintain it,S value ?
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Old 17-05-2016, 02:21   #70
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Re: why do people do this?

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Your post looks foolish.
A lot less foolish than suggesting a 3yr old boat needs a complete overhaul but it's the internet, so you are free to express your opinion.
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Old 17-05-2016, 02:29   #71
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

The original poster wondered about the way boats were advertised. Indeed as it has been said before: brokers and owners want the boat sold so they gild the edges, or in some cases tell white lies, fibs, show old photos etc.

Marketing is a numbers game, the more people react to an ad, the more chance one has to sell.

Generally I think, sellers do no write lies, but at the same time buyers should not believe every word. I would check what the ad did NOT mention. I am with LeftBrain regarding to a tidy engine room.
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Old 17-05-2016, 05:57   #72
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

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I've been spending a lot of time shopping for a boat and I've noticed a common pattern in the ads. It goes something like this:

"The owner just spent gobs and gobs of money on this boat. It has a new this, an upgraded that and a never before seen other thing. Don't miss this opportunity!"

So I wonder, why do people go on spending binges just before selling their boat? Did they ..
- go broke and now have to sell their boat?
- realize the spending won't stop until they go broke?
- become bitter from all the spending, so that they can't enjoy the boat?

Or it is, in fact, that the rate of spending displayed in these ads is actually a constant rate that I should assume will have to continue?

While I don't want to present this as primarily a new boat/old boat question, it does seem to be mostly older boats that show this pattern.

Indeed, the more "salty" the boat (mid, heavy displacement, center cockpit or pilothouse, multiple passages, etc), the more likely it is to have this pattern as well. So-called production boats less so, but it happens there too.

It is a difference in boats or a difference in sailers?

Maybe the way to ask this questions is - when or under what conditions does a boat reach a point of diminishing returns so that it should not be considered?

Thanks
Because every boat, maintained properly, requires constant maintenance, repair, and improvements.

Why would someone listing a boat NOT detail what has recently been done?

This helps the prospect understand what may need yet to be done.

Then the other aspect, many boaters wish to "personalize" their boat, making it as close to exactly what they want (or think they want).

Additionally, many purchase a boat that requires a bunch of repair, maintenance, and improvement, do it, enjoy it, and then move on to other interests.

Lastly, some perform all kinds of repairs, lose interest or health, and have to scrap the plan.

It is wise for every owner to set a repair budget based on what the boat needs on a priority basis, an annual maintenance budget, based on what it will always need, and an improvement budget, based on what they want.

This is true of every boat old and new.

IF you are finding "production boats" or newer boats that do not have "new" items listed, the owner has been cash strapped just purchasing, and likely has not maintained, repaired, and improved the way they should have been. You will now be responsible for their past maintenance, repair, and improvement not completed.

PS, electronics aren't obsolete after 3 years. They will still work fine. Typically, life expectancy is around 10 years, if installed properly. Many will operate satisfactorily for 20 or more years (they just won't have the latest features.)
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Old 17-05-2016, 06:05   #73
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

The bigger question is the ads that features one 20yr old picture from far away (maybe even a sistership), the brand (not model or length), the price and....absolutely nothing else.


Far better they give a detailed history.
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Old 17-05-2016, 06:59   #74
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

+1! on how people use "new" in their sales adds. New = replaced, maybe back in 1996, who knows.

Very sharp observation. Good senses there!

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Old 17-05-2016, 08:38   #75
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

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In lots of boat ads I think the word "new" means "everything the owner has replaced since they have owned the boat no matter how long ago it was replaced".
So true... I always leaned toward a boat with almost nothing added, clean and simple. Then I can add what I want and not have to deal with all the holes drilled where I don't want them from the PO's wild ideas!
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