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Old 16-05-2016, 13:06   #46
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

The "other side of the coin" from "New" are thorough maintenance records. If the PO didn't keep records, then how can you be assured that ANYTHING is as reported?

Over my 18 years I have 17 pages of meticulously detailed records of all the work I've done on the boat. Everything, from maintenance to new items, with date and engine hours.
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Old 16-05-2016, 13:15   #47
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I think the truly well prepared boat or anything often sells without being advertised.
I sold my airplane to get a cruising boat, it was a 1983 M6-235 Maule, a "bush plane" not the average airplane, and sort of well know in that community, when I decided to sell it, I had people contacting me, I never did advertise it.
On the money there, sellability and pride of ownership, being and dealing with real sailors. We are in this very process right now, with our 50yr old "baby". Beautiful Canadian built discovery 32, classic lines, stronger than hell, beautiful solid mahogany everywhere, a joy to sail. We got her for a song, she needed everything, been working ever since and almost all sparkly again. it's so hard to sell a boat nowadays and we need to sell it, we already bought our future afloat we might come out ahead barely, but we also did all of our own work, so ahead might be just a crappy wage but it's something, and I'm sure she'll sell herself when she's beautiful again. Now we're going to do it all over again with our " totalled " new to us boat , doesn't get any better than that
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Old 16-05-2016, 15:27   #48
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

In lots of boat ads I think the word "new" means "everything the owner has replaced since they have owned the boat no matter how long ago it was replaced".
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Old 16-05-2016, 15:47   #49
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Talking Re: why do people do this?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
We got a great boat at half the price the former owner paid. Only 600 hours on the engine and 300 on the genset. Practically new.

Still, a little schepticism won't hurt. Forget about adding any value to any three year old or older electronics onboard. Really, anything older than three years is obsolete. All pumps, macerators, waste hoses and impellers will need replacement.
The concept of obsolesence is a nice hook and all the fish jump on it! if you look at most electronics, they have a central function and peripheral gagetry. Buy purpose oriented devices and save by not falling for the gagets, most of which you'll never use anyway!
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Old 16-05-2016, 17:10   #50
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

I bought a boat last year in this category. Added up, as best I could, the cost of upgrades and equipment added, new sails and rigging, not to mention the engine rebuild, new cabin sole and re-wired mast, and found that the previous two owners had spent at least 1.5 times the price at which the boat was offered for sale. I asked the yacht broker and boat the same question you are asking. His answer, validated by a few people I talked to was that first set of previous owners had plans to circumnavigate (or maybe he did, and she said she did), and he spent tens of thousands fitting out the boat. They ended up getting divorced over it. Boat sells to next owner who was working at a high-paying job, but he was single, and wanted to cross oceans in the boat. Basically, he had an open checkbook for the boatyard to upgrade, buy equipment, etc. Then he gets married and new wife gives him an ultimatum - sell the boat or else. I buy the boat at what seems a suspiciously low cost, but after a survey and much looking into invoices and looking at the boat, everything checks out, so I buy it. The proof of the pudding is that the day after I got title to the boat, the former owner had a change of heart and wanted to buy it back; I felt for the guy, but....too late.

So sometimes, you do find homewrecker boats or something like, that are deals. Don't count on those being the majority, of course. And btw, I've had to replace the 35-year-old gudgeon (crystallized bronze) and all portlights but four (leaky, plastic, not worth repairing), and have a corrosion spot on the stem welded, but overall still quite a bargain. Next year painting, and then she'll be a real beauty......just a few more thousand......;-)
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Old 16-05-2016, 17:40   #51
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

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Originally Posted by Three Sisters View Post
That's funny.

"$100,000.00 in upgrades" Rattle can rebuild. Hours meters just plugged in prior to calling broker.
I'm in the market for a cat. The neighbor of the owner of one yacht I was interested inbefore I knew the price told me on this forum that this particular Helia 44 has 200,000$ worth of improvements and his own boat of the same built has 250,000$ of improvements. (check here)

Really? You have to put another 250,000 in the boat to be able to cruise? Either Fountain Pajot delivers only half finished project boats or he thought I'm really gullible. For the asking price of this used 2012 Helia 44 one can get a brand new Helia 44 fully optioned!
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Old 16-05-2016, 18:35   #52
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
In lots of boat ads I think the word "new" means "everything the owner has replaced since they have owned the boat no matter how long ago it was replaced".
I think this is pretty accurate and sums up what it means.

When I purchased mine (2011) there was claims of 'new chartplotter 2000' and 'engine overhauled 2004'. Well, by 2011 they were hardly new.

Something that was done new when I purchased mine and was a selling point was 'deck just painted and new anti foul' which had only been done a few weeks before I purchased it. When I arrived the 400 miles to my home the boat looked like a zebra with rust streaks all over it. They had simply painted over any rust.

To my mind, something is 'new' if it's under warranty still.

When eventually (not for a long time godwilling) I sell mine, I'll be listing everything I have done since I purchased it, but I won't be pretending it's all new if it's not under warranty still.
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Old 16-05-2016, 18:51   #53
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

You are buying a hull and spars, everything else is a consumable and will need replacement sooner or later.
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Old 16-05-2016, 19:37   #54
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

IF... I were to sell my boat... which I have no plans for....the ad would be pages long on describing refit, upgrades, and loving care it has received since '07 and '14 and now with my loving care labor and attention...easily over 55k was spent on her.. only receipt for 4500 ablation bottom job 2 years ago....ALL of which can be seen with a knowledgable trained eye...
I was more than lucky in my purchase..bargain price....no ad, no broker, no pictures, no sea trial, no haulout, no hagaling, no survey.....just my experienced eyes and ears...and hours spent aboard asking questions and opening everything up...for 10 years All I did was sailboats, factory building, CSY and Irwin, Commissioning dealer, Endeavors, Charter captain, rigger, 5 years live aboard and sailing the Caribbean, spent maybe 20 nights in a marina in that time...all on the hook...extensive refit/reengine by myself on my Morgan 35 in 77-78..Ft Lauderdale broker 2 yrs, mid 80's....and much, much more...
so I knew what I was looking at... can't be duplicated...divine luck it would be' ...read on,
To add; additionally, because my boat starred in Dolphin Tale... My po's received a big fat Hollywood check for the 2 1/2 months or so she was on the set... the owner loved her...though they never used her...so he put lots of money into the '07 and then '14 refit...and...they wrote off everything they spent on her thruout the 14 yrs of owning her as they were in the marine biz...so you see I had to buy her...It was the only boat I looked at..further,....the written contract deal, sea trial w/deposit, cancelled, the day I called (after tentatively turning it down a month before)... due to prospective buyers father passing away 4 states away...they mutually agreed to keeping the deposit...
I might add that I am extremely limited in my actual selection, and acceptance of which vessel I would purchase...I knew exactly what I wanted, my pocket was thin, and my eye critical......Only a handful of designs 36-37 ft. fit my requirements...yes, the man upstairs has my eternal gratitude.
The only way to buy a boat is to go look at it with your own eyes and spend lots of time on it digging...
in the slings 2 weeks ago...Beautiful!
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Old 16-05-2016, 20:09   #55
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

On month in to my new to me used 46 foot ketch. 1972. But.. rig new 2011. Engine new 2009. Electronics new 2011. Yes dated now BUT fully functional. Plus all the usual maintenance stuff done over time.
The previous owners were dreamers and pulled off 3 years of an atlantic circuit.
Very happy with boat. My gig list is already 100+ items long.
That's normal.
The big ticket items are done. For now.
Go sailing!
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Old 16-05-2016, 20:24   #56
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

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Originally Posted by kalbahnov View Post
I've been spending a lot of time shopping for a boat and I've noticed a common pattern in the ads. It goes something like this:

"The owner just spent gobs and gobs of money on this boat. It has a new this, an upgraded that and a never before seen other thing. Don't miss this opportunity!"

So I wonder, why do people go on spending binges just before selling their boat? Did they ..
- go broke and now have to sell their boat?
- realize the spending won't stop until they go broke?
- become bitter from all the spending, so that they can't enjoy the boat?

Or it is, in fact, that the rate of spending displayed in these ads is actually a constant rate that I should assume will have to continue?

While I don't want to present this as primarily a new boat/old boat question, it does seem to be mostly older boats that show this pattern.

Indeed, the more "salty" the boat (mid, heavy displacement, center cockpit or pilothouse, multiple passages, etc), the more likely it is to have this pattern as well. So-called production boats less so, but it happens there too.

It is a difference in boats or a difference in sailers?

Maybe the way to ask this questions is - when or under what conditions does a boat reach a point of diminishing returns so that it should not be considered?

Thanks
a few possible reasons you see this:

1) the more actual use a boat gets, the more things wear. if your new plastic fantastic with it's wonderful marina friendly accommodations and somewhat less than bulletproof seaworthy qualities sees few actual miles, it won't need repairs and you probably won't feel the need to upgrade equipment that rarely gets used.

2) 'salty' (read: more seaworthy designs) boats will tend to get more hard usage. you said it in your post: multiple passages. things wear when used and the sea wears things a lot more than sailing in more sheltered waters where you can take shelter from rough weather.

3) people who put miles under their keels are likely to discover things they wish their boat had and then upgrade.

4) with modern advertising, we are told we need every new bing and whistle. some people listen

5) after upgrading a well sailed boat for some time, people eventually decide to upgrade to a larger boat or one more suited to their needs. the they have to sell the boat they have spent the last few years upgrading.



the rate of repairs is directly related to the use you put it to ,the quality you bought in the first place, and the regularity of your maintenance schedule. a stitch in time saves nine.

marine environments are harsh. you wouldn't expect to buy a car and never put time or money into repairs. why would you think a person should never have to invest time and money maintaining a sailing vessel?

one other thing about maintenance, some things will need upkeep. that's a fact for anything you own. . however, much of the rate of work you need to do depends on how you set your boat up.

if you have a lot of nifty complex gadgets you will sped a lot more time fixing and replacing stuff than if you keep it simple. if you try to have all the luxuries of land on board, you could nearly go broke trying to keep it all functional. if you remember it's a boat and adjust your lifestyle accordingly, it will be a lot less expensive and a lot less of a headache.

if you feel you simply must keep up with the joneses and upgrade every time a new product comes out, when your older items still work fine, you will spend an endless fortune on boat upgrades that you probably didn't need.
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Old 16-05-2016, 20:25   #57
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

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Originally Posted by Tbonem17 View Post
Certainly agree regarding all the gloss in adds.

Read recently although I can't remember the authors name that the typical life expectancy of some major systems on a boat are

Hull - 35 years (fibreglass)
Engine - 5000 hours
Rigging - 15 years
Sails -5 years

I'm shopping for a boat and use the above as a guide as to the real value of what I'm looking at ignoring the owners adds.

New cockpit cushions will mean diddly squat if the engine, rigging and sails need replacing as is the case for many used boats.

The Gold Coast Sanctuary Cove boat show is on this weekend here in Oz and I'm off to do some drooling. The things we have to do.

Tony
Nope,.. can't agree with any of your life expectancy quote....every boat must be looked at on an individual basis...this is especially true the older it gets...
glad you didn't look at my beauty...
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Old 16-05-2016, 20:30   #58
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Re: why do people do this?

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Originally Posted by paulajayne View Post
We picked up ours cheap - as owners wife who loved sailing sadly passed.
New wife cannot stand it - so hence we got a boat for a price we liked.
that's just bad decision making on the previous owner's part. if the new girlfriend doesn't like to sail, you certainly don't marry her! you tell her to shove off and find someone who does like sailing. priorities people! priorities!

i say that as in jest but, i'm really quite serious. when i was 16, i used to run into a lot of guys in their 30s and 40s at gas stations while filling up the tank on my first motorcycle. they'd invariably look at my bike with longing as they relate how their wife made them stop riding when they got married or had kids. made them! i vowed that would never happen to me. every girlfriend i ever got serious with got a talk when it was obviously getting serious. it went like this:

"i grew up on motorcycles and have been riding all of my life and will ride for the rest of it. if you ever try to make me give up riding, i will be gone so quick that the wind of my passing will mess up your hair."

it may sound mean but, it all comes down to this: i am what i am (and that's all that i am lol). if that isn't a good match for who you are, we should not be together. i will not betray myself for your convenience. happiness is finding someone that fits in with who you are; not in taking someone who doesn't and forcing them into compliance.
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Old 16-05-2016, 20:47   #59
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Re: why do people do this?

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Originally Posted by oldsalt_1942 View Post
Some of the best places to find bargain boats are at destination ports on the east coast like the Virgin Islands, Isla Mujeres, and the Rio Dulce in Guatemala, for EXACTLY the reason you stated...A couple set off with a dream that gets pierced with reality and one of them decides the dream is a nightmare and they want OUT!! Once, though, I did meet someone who, presented with the ultimatum said, "Gee, I'm really going to miss you," and kept on sailing. (It happened to be a woman)
where can i find that woman or maybe she has a cute younger like-minded sister?
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Old 16-05-2016, 20:50   #60
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

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There is also a percentage of boat owners that hardly ever sail their boats. I'm sure you all know people who've bought a boat and then spend hours and months and years 'fitting out' for their big overseas adventure. But they never actually go.

So when they finally give up the dream (or more often die) their boats are full of oldish, but never used goodies. Such boats may be bargains as quite often the seller (will executor) doesn't share the emotional attachment that the owner did.
true...
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