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Old 16-05-2016, 09:58   #31
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

People put money in their boats, when it's time to sell the wording is often as you say, but take it with a big grain of salt. Often "just installed blah blah blah" means "in the last few years".
I looked at a boat a few years back that the ad said "rebuilt engine". When I pressed the seller for receipts or more info I was told. "well the owner before me said he had rebuilt it.." Unfortunately this is VERY common.
I consider added things as zero value... mostly. New sails or engine is a plus though.
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Old 16-05-2016, 09:58   #32
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

The three year old electronic rule is typically used to describe added value not use. If your electronics are more than three years old, they do not ad resale value to the boat vs one without those items. It's not saying they are not useful. This thread is about selling or purchasing a boat not usefulness of items on them.

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It's the same in the car business. Two 5 year old vehicles... One has a five year old gps system, the other identical car does not have gps. The added resale value of the vehicle with gps is low vs what it was purchased for on the new vehicle.

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Old 16-05-2016, 09:59   #33
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

First, we can disagree without resorting to name calling can't we?
That is rude, pointless and just makes yourself look childish

Secondly, I think for purposes of determining sales cost of an item, he may well be right about three yrs being the point of which it has little value.
What is a cutting edge computer worth after you have had it for three yrs? It still works, but what can you get for it if you try to sell it was I think the point.
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Old 16-05-2016, 10:29   #34
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

I think the 3 year rule is absurd applied to used boats. Item like an AP or radar add value if working. Check the values of used electronics on e-bay. The rule applies mostly to fast evolving electronics like computers. That does not describe most on-board equipment.
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Old 16-05-2016, 10:38   #35
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

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I think the 3 year rule is absurd applied to used boats. Item like an AP or radar add value if working. Check the values of used electronics on e-bay. The rule applies mostly to fast evolving electronics like computers. That does not describe most on-board equipment.
Just because you and I agree that those items add value, doesn't mean the market sees it that way. And they are not worthless, it's just a small return on investment vs what were paid new for them.

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Old 16-05-2016, 10:43   #36
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Quote:
Originally Posted by funjohnson View Post
The three year old electronic rule is typically used to describe added value not use. If your electronics are more than three years old, they do not ad resale value to the boat vs one without those items. It's not saying they are not useful. This thread is about selling or purchasing a boat not usefulness of items on them.

Matt


It's the same in the car business. Two 5 year old vehicles... One has a five year old gps system, the other identical car does not have gps. The added resale value of the vehicle with gps is low vs what it was purchased for on the new vehicle.

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Thank you Matt, that's exactly what I meant.

Some people seem a little too jumpy when it comes to defending some of their old crap. But realistically... the resale value of a four year old GPS anything is only slightly higher than zero, whether the owner of such object chooses to believe it or not. The old electronics junk peddled on eBay is targeted towards a buyer who previously owned the same obsolete piece and now their looking for a replacement. On our boat, we replaced all of the obsolete electronics except for the radar, which will also be replaced when it finally shits the bed. Nobody services or carries spare parts for electronics older than three years, just try to get something fixed if you don't believe me.... Most will resort to buying used on eBay for a replacement up until the time the lightbulb above their head finally flashes on.

So.... when shopping for a used boat, assign a value of zero to any electronics older than three years to help establish the true market value of the boat.
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Old 16-05-2016, 11:05   #37
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

I'm in the process of possibly purchasing an older boat (1981) which has been advertised as clean, odor free, a meticulously maintained. Took the time to contact the owner who stated that he is purchasing a larger boat and what's to dump this one off cheap. In e-mails he describes it as "turn-key".

Normally these would all be warning signs, especially as he agreed to drop the purchase price enough to replace the mainsail and install and autopilot.

Haven't seen the boat myself as I may be purchasing it from abroad, but the photos, the maintenance and repair records that I have received indicate that there has been extensive maintenance (not repairs) done on the boat at the end of his boating season last year. Also, the boat is on the hard between seasons for the past few years according to the boatyard where it is being kept.

All sounds a bit too good to be true, right? So, have arranged to have the boat surveyed later this month before making a decision. If it's a lemon, then I'm out the cost of the survey and not the cost of buying a boat blind only to find out it's a piece of junk later.....If you can afford to buy a boat, then you can probably afford to have a survey done before buying said boat (which may help with insurance coverage later).
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Old 16-05-2016, 11:12   #38
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

If, I do not, I had a Catalina 30 for sale I would certainly try to

catch your attention some how. There are 130+ of these for sale presently.
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Old 16-05-2016, 11:35   #39
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Iíd like to thank everybody for chiming in. Responses seem to fall into the fallowing categories:

- women (they divorce you. they donít, for some reason, share your passion for the floating treehouse Ö)
- life gets in the way. sometimes you really are getting the benefit of someone elseís refit
- the never ending refit is a fact of life
- brokers lie (and, as Scaramanga points out, selling boats is as hard as buying them)

The electronics debate may have some subtleties. Not sure I want to weigh in. For me the 3 year rule is probably valid, at least at this point in time. Ditto solar tech, and I wonder how long before I can ditch the diesel for something electric.

I suppose the truth is complicated, but the following points stuck with me:
- a clean and well organized engine area (and I assume the same goes for other parts of the boat) says something about the owner.
- details matter a lot (when was something installed? how well? why?)
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Old 16-05-2016, 12:18   #40
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Certainly agree regarding all the gloss in adds.

Read recently although I can't remember the authors name that the typical life expectancy of some major systems on a boat are

Hull - 35 years (fibreglass)
Engine - 5000 hours
Rigging - 15 years
Sails -5 years

I'm shopping for a boat and use the above as a guide as to the real value of what I'm looking at ignoring the owners adds.

New cockpit cushions will mean diddly squat if the engine, rigging and sails need replacing as is the case for many used boats.

The Gold Coast Sanctuary Cove boat show is on this weekend here in Oz and I'm off to do some drooling. The things we have to do.

Tony
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Old 16-05-2016, 12:23   #41
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Some of those ads may be speaking the truth.
I bought a CSY 33 in excellent shape for $40K, then spent another $70k + on upgrades, repairs and maintenance. (Too much to list, but truly turnkey boat)
When it was time to sell due to changes in my situation such as work, family, etc, 14 years later, I did not have to list it for sale, a buyer popped up out of nowhere because he had heard about the boat and paid less than half of what I had into to. Great deal for him and if it was listed, all the claims would have been true: New this, new that, well maintained, fully equipped, etc.

Great deal for me as well, I got to enjoy the boat and had it equipped and maintained carefully so I never had any serious issues over 27 Bahahamas cruises and 30 Florida Key trips. (I hate doing repairs on a cruise and I hate calling for help, never happened in 14 years but I paid good money and put a lot of work into it to avoid just that)
The boat is now for sale again if anybody is interested, CSY 33 for $35k, well equipped and well maintained..

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until I discovered it was T'd into the propane locker drain, connecting the propane locker directly to the lowest point in my bilge.
Congratulations, never heard of that before, must be a First in the sailing community. :-)
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Old 16-05-2016, 12:35   #42
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

I think the truly well prepared boat or anything often sells without being advertised.
I sold my airplane to get a cruising boat, it was a 1983 M6-235 Maule, a "bush plane" not the average airplane, and sort of well know in that community, when I decided to sell it, I had people contacting me, I never did advertise it.
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Old 16-05-2016, 12:41   #43
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000 islands View Post
I have an older boat and every year we are either replacing or upgrading something, it's part of owning an older boat.

If I were to list my boat for sale, as an example here's the listing of improvements:

- all new exhaust manifolds & risers
- new carpet in the salon area
- new toilet in forward head
- new gps & depth sounder
- new electric induction stove
- new full size fridge
- new balanced props
- 3 new batteries
- new hot water heater
- probably more if I was to spend time thinking

These are both things that are considered regular part of maintenance and things we chose to change.

The listing could appear that the boat is being re-fitted, but in fact just the usual year to year up-keeps.
Very good point.

My list would be similar:

New exhaust riser
New muffler
New exhaust hose
New water heater
New plumbing lines
New PHII head
New hoses from engine to water heater


All these were done in the past two or three years.

It's routine maintenance on my 30 year old boat that I've owned for the past 18 years.

BUT, but, but... all of those things will last for another 12 to 16 years. The exhaust hose was 16 years old when I replaced it. The muffler was 30 years old. The hoses were 16 years old, etc. etc.

That's why homework and research ar sooo important. You HAVE to know what you're looking at beyond the ads.

I use the boat a lot. But stuff needs to be replaced as part of normal and preventative maintenance. Stuff only lasts so long ya know.

The reality is that if you do your homework and research, and KNOW about the specific boats you plan to investigate, you're bound to find the one that works for you.

Folks who just look at "a lot of 34 foot boats" will have a lot more issues than if they look for a specific XYZ boat.

We wanted ONLY a Catalina 34. A Cal 34 was NOT in our consideration. Two completely different boats. We became EXPERTS on the Catalina 34 and spent an entire YEAR until we found one. Saw many examples of horrible neglect and stupidity.
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Old 16-05-2016, 12:57   #44
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

See, to me, the add that lists "new" equipment, better also tell me when it was new. Because NEW to me, means within the last few months. That doesn't mean I don't discount the added value of something that was done with the last year or two. But someone could put a new engine in two years ago, and have a lot more hours than one might expect it to have - That doesn't make it new any more to me. But I do see a lot of adds that list so much new equipment, and half of it is stuff that is general maintenance which is nice, but also stuff 3-4 years ago. Newer isn't "New".

I do think there are also people that know the rigging is going to be a stickler so they replace it. Or other areas, so they replace it, thinking it'll be easier to sell the boat. Will the recover their costs? Doubtful, but who's to know for sure on some of them. Or perhaps a broker they were planning to use talked up the value of the work with claims that it'll be easier to sell this way, even if they end up with less profit. I mean, think about it. If you want to sell a boat for 50k - but it needs new this or that to do it.. so right now, maybe it'll only bring 30k in. So you spend 25 on new everything. Ok, so the net profit is going to be less, but the check from the boat itself is now 50k instead of 30k, so they might feel better about it at the end?

Just thoughts for thought.
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Old 16-05-2016, 13:05   #45
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

There is also a percentage of boat owners that hardly ever sail their boats. I'm sure you all know people who've bought a boat and then spend hours and months and years 'fitting out' for their big overseas adventure. But they never actually go.

So when they finally give up the dream (or more often die) their boats are full of oldish, but never used goodies. Such boats may be bargains as quite often the seller (will executor) doesn't share the emotional attachment that the owner did.
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