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Old 16-05-2016, 07:15   #16
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

As previously cited, there are real life stories on how this happens. And it does happen frequently.

HOWEVER, I have noted that there is a propensity to use a "new stuff" list to distract buyers from looking at other real problems. If you make the sole shiny enough nobody wants to look in the bilge.

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Old 16-05-2016, 07:16   #17
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Re: why do people do this?

Then why did he pick that new wife?

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Old 16-05-2016, 07:18   #18
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Originally Posted by kalbahnov View Post
I've been spending a lot of time shopping for a boat and I've noticed a common pattern in the ads. It goes something like this:

"The owner just spent gobs and gobs of money on this boat. It has a new this, an upgraded that and a never before seen other thing. Don't miss this opportunity!"

So I wonder, why do people go on spending binges just before selling their boat? Did they ..
- go broke and now have to sell their boat?
- realize the spending won't stop until they go broke?
- become bitter from all the spending, so that they can't enjoy the boat?

Or it is, in fact, that the rate of spending displayed in these ads is actually a constant rate that I should assume will have to continue?

While I don't want to present this as primarily a new boat/old boat question, it does seem to be mostly older boats that show this pattern.

Indeed, the more "salty" the boat (mid, heavy displacement, center cockpit or pilothouse, multiple passages, etc), the more likely it is to have this pattern as well. So-called production boats less so, but it happens there too.

It is a difference in boats or a difference in sailers?

Maybe the way to ask this questions is - when or under what conditions does a boat reach a point of diminishing returns so that it should not be considered?

My husband loves fixing up bargain boats - can't keep them all -- great hobby for him...
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Old 16-05-2016, 07:23   #19
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

I get a little leary when the seller's list of "New items" seem more like maintenance items. Sure, new sails sound good in an ad...but, when someone starts telling me about new oil filters, new this or that and small items like that they are padding their ad..Or, something happened to the old items that may be questionable. "Brand new flooring throughout!!" sounds great, but to me the first thought is "Why?" Did the boat get partially submerged and ruin the old stuff? Maybe I am just a pessimist? Lol.
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Old 16-05-2016, 07:42   #20
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post

Do NOT listen to what the selling broker and the becoming ex-owner are trying to tell you. Their business is to SELL the boat, not to pass information to you.
Very well said, and so true.
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Old 16-05-2016, 07:59   #21
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post

It is all sales talk. I know a handful of boats like this that I would not touch with a dirty stick.

"One owner from new".
"Maintained meticulously".
"No expense spared".


Sure. ;-)

Do NOT listen to what the selling broker and the becoming ex-owner are trying to tell you. Their business is to SELL the boat, not to pass information to you.

A clean, sound and well maintained boat sells on her own virtues. You come, you look, you buy. You may haggle some but not madly so, as you will know you want her.

Your observation is correct. It is a pattern. Each pattern teaches us a lesson.

Hmmm... the boat I'm trying to buy is exactly all these things. The previous ONE owner loved his boat, and was prepping to head to the Pacific after many years in the Caribbean. He came down with cancer and can't go.

While a heavy dose of skepticism is a good thing, writing off this kind of advertising in it's entirety can be harmful. If we can't make this deal happen and the owner has to market the boat, that's exactly what the ad will say I'm guessing. He has invoices, manuals, etc.

~ Following Cs ~
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Old 16-05-2016, 08:01   #22
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

I was in a divorce support group once,and our mantra regarding the significant other was "believe none of what they say and half of what they do." Seems that applies here as well!
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Old 16-05-2016, 08:04   #23
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Re: why do people do this?

Some of the best places to find bargain boats are at destination ports on the east coast like the Virgin Islands, Isla Mujeres, and the Rio Dulce in Guatemala, for EXACTLY the reason you stated...A couple set off with a dream that gets pierced with reality and one of them decides the dream is a nightmare and they want OUT!! Once, though, I did meet someone who, presented with the ultimatum said, "Gee, I'm really going to miss you," and kept on sailing. (It happened to be a woman)
A small boat and a suitcase full of money beat a 40 footer tied to a bank every time!
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Old 16-05-2016, 08:17   #24
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

This sort of advertising is merely a cultural artifact and can be - indeed should be - disregarded. It bears no relationship to the real world.

Since "Madison Avenue" became a by-word for slick, dissembling, prevaricating, deceptive promotion of "consumer products" in the 1920s, the techniques for "selling into a market of ignorance" have been perfected. Just as well, since a "free ennerprize" economy cannot exist without this particular device, and without "free ennerprize" thee and me could not be yotties.

"Yachting" is, like the "small business" sector of the economy, a device for redistributing wealth - away from the over-reaching poor towards the grasping rich. The cynical (and/or knowledgeable) become the beneficiaries of the naive. TrentePieds is an excellent example fo this fundamental "law" of economis. PO had just spent an amount on refurbishing the rig that was more than four times the settlement price when we took her off his hands. Actually it wasn't HIS hands we took her off, but those of the benevolent society to which he had donated her in return for a receipt for taxation purposes.

To construct TrentePieds anew, today, would, I estimate, cost about 25 times the price for which we bought her. She is 30 years old, and, bei mir, she is good for another thirty - i.e for far longer than a chap my age can expect to be sailing her. What will I do when the end comes? Well, if no younger branch of the family is interested in taking her as a pressie, I'll donate her to the same benevolent society from which we bought her (or some other such organization) rather than incur the destruction/disposal costs which would be more than what we paid for her! When you buy a yot you should never pay more than you are willing to walk away from!

What about all the electronic goodies "Madison Avenue" would have you believe you cannot do without? Codswallop, sez I! There is NOTHING in that lot of toys that you cannot do without. Sailormen did so for centuries before the rise of Madison Avenue. Convenient these gizmos sometimes are, but necessary they are not! So why pay attention to their being touted by advertisers?

If you are at all interested in how "the middle class" (thee and me) has arrived at its present condition of being victimized by MA, yet having enuff leisure and disposable wealth to play at seafaring, then read John Kenneth Galbraith's 1958 work The Affluent Society in which he develops his notion of "conspicuous consumption". When you've done that, if you want corroboration of my contention made above that we yotties lead a financially charmed life only because "free ennerprize" exists, then follow up your reading of The Affluent Society with JKG's 1968 work The New Industrial State.


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Old 16-05-2016, 08:25   #25
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Re: why do people do this?

Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
We got a great boat at half the price the former owner paid. Only 600 hours on the engine and 300 on the genset. Practically new.

Still, a little schepticism won't hurt. Forget about adding any value to any three year old or older electronics onboard. Really, anything older than three years is obsolete. All pumps, macerators, waste hoses and impellers will need replacement.
Well that is a lie. CCA did a survey some time ago about age of equipment among members. Most sail with original stuff. Average age of boat owned was 15 years old. We sailed for 30 years with same everything, although washers, o rings, etc were replaced several times. An old icom 7000 still good as new and never had a problem. Same with self steering.

Guess either you are smoking or never maintained your equipment.
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Old 16-05-2016, 08:35   #26
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Your observation is valid. Some mix of sunk cost, optimism bias and insanity seems to be at play here.

All boats are effectively prototypes. Therefore they consume a high ratio of maintenance to use. Brokers obviously wish to appeal to buyers and want maximise features or stuff.

Like any form of marketing it's an arms race. Can we buy a small drink anymore. No the smallest is a large or jumbo, etc. Boat adds are no different.

As boats get more complex many owners either get sucked into 'shiny kit syndrome'. Either it's racing related or some form of cruising nirvana.

What sold us on our Liberty 458 was the engine room pic. Clean, tidy and well layed out. Any boat with a messy, poorly layed out emgine room is a huge red flag. In fact we discounted any vessel in this state.

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Old 16-05-2016, 08:38   #27
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

To the poster who claimed everything over three years old is obsolete.. Damn, West Marine must love you. I love going and pulling up older articles about electronics from 3-5 years ago and reading why they at the time were considered the best on the market. Now I can pick one up new for 1/2 the price as someone thinks they are obsolete.. WOW! As long as the company still maintains this items they are good for years and years.
I also wonder does that person trade in their car before the three years is up to save the expense of replacing all the wiring, hoses, fittings and electronics?
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Old 16-05-2016, 08:45   #28
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Definition of boat: 1. Break Out Another Thousand! 2. A hole in the water into which you deposit money!
That being said, all is in the eye of the beholder (sometimes). In many cases our boat is our home and spending monies to improve your lifestyle and surrounding is not necessarily a bad thing (if I would do it for my house, why not my home?). Yes it does appear that all the glamorous spending is supposedly done just prior to a sale but wouldn't you put lipstick on the pig if it improved chances of a sale? Not to say all are bigs but the two happiest days of a boat owner (house owner too for that matter) are when he buys and when he sells. The real caveat here folks is actually where and when to stop the bleeding. As with all good blood letting, the procedure is to get rid of what is bad w/o killing the patient (so how does that work out?). As long as you see what you want and are willing to spend what you can, boats are like houses, cars and jewelry. If you get what you want, you got what you paid for and it may just keep you happy for a time.
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Old 16-05-2016, 08:47   #29
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

The answer is simple:

People like their boats...a lot!

Buying and installing a new thing on the boat is not a chore, it's a pleasure.

The reason for selling is not often anything to do with the can't plan a heart attack, cancer, or in my wife left me.
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Old 16-05-2016, 08:53   #30
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Re: Why Do People Do This?

Originally Posted by Stingraydriver View Post
The ad might say new this ,replaced that etc, etc, but when? You will find ads that say "new engine " and the date next to it says 2002, that's not new to me , not even recent . Mechanical upgrades over ten years old ? Might want to plan on them needing possible renewing under your tenure , electronics over a few years old , budget for eventual replacement in the near future . As a side note a maintenance log with consistent upgrades and such does show care for the boat and possibly represents a boat that could serve you well .

That's funny.

"$100,000.00 in upgrades" Rattle can rebuild. Hours meters just plugged in prior to calling broker.

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