Why Do Marinas Seem to Hate Liveaboards?

[Cruiseicw]

Hey y'all,
First of all, this is my first post here, so greetings. I lived aboard for many years, mostly on the hook, but also at marinas in the Fl keys; Sanford,Fl; Hilton Head; Brunswick, Ga; Isle of Palms, SC; Point Lookout, Md; Solomons, MD; and Annapolis. I think those are all of the places where I livedaboard at a marina for a month or more. What seems to make the difference is how busy the marina is. If it was off season and they had empty slips, they loved to have me. If it was high season and slips were at a premium, they weren't so happy to have me there. Also, places off the normal routes, even just a few miles off the Intracoastal were much more accomadating. It just seemed like a lot of greed to me.
Keith

[coyotewrw]

Anyone have experience with marinas on the Mediterranean coast, Scandinavia or the British Isles?

[Brent Swain]

A friend went to meetings discussing a liveaboard ban. He found out that everyone complaining was in the real estate business. Not being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for everyone who gets out of either buying a house for themselves or buying one for a landlord is a powerful motivator for pushing for liveaboard bans for people in the real estate business. They being rich ,and the golden rule being "Those who have the gold make the rules" They have a lot more political clout than low income cruisers.
Many marina owners would prefer to have liveaboards for security reasons, but politicoes who are in the pockets of the real estate industry, and, in may cases, personally profiting from the real estate industry ,really give them a hard time over liveaboards.
One marina owner I knew tried to locate liveaboards at strategic locations to enable them to catch thieves. When he was forced to ban liveaboards his theft problems went up exponentially.
When the Nanaimo Yacht club successfully got the people at Newcastle Island Park kiched out, out of sheer jealousy, the night after the last one left, the house was broken into and ransacked . That didn't happen when there were people living at the dock.
Even if you don't live aboard, leaving your boat at a dock which has liveaboards is much safer that leaving it at a dock which doesn't . Perhaps this should be pointed out to the management when looking for a marina , especially if you don't plan to live aboard.
That great philosopher , Arthur Black explained this clearly when he said " When those who are happy and content with their own lives see someone with a good thing going, they say "More power to you". Jealousy is the exclusive domain of those who have made a total screwup of their own lives and vindictively want to see everyone else drawn down to their level of misery. Jealousy is an admission that you have made a total screwup of your own life." or words to that effect.
Brent

Originally Posted by sneuman

More naivete on my part here:

Doing some checking into liveaboard marinas. As I'm sure many of you already know, they are few and far between. There seems to be an active attempt to discourage liveaboards. Why is that?

When the Nanaimo Yacht club successfully got the people at Newcastle Island Park kiched out, out of sheer jealousy, the night after the last one left, the house was broken into and ransacked . That didn't happen when there were people living at the dock.

And this was because there was no security? Or, maybe it had something to do with a bunch of ticked off displaced residents?
I agree that there is often allot of input from sources who stand to benefit from such bans, but there is also substantial support from those who have watched cranksters move into cheap derelict boats and bring the harbor down to the level of a second class neighborhood. Marinas are just like any community. There are good and bad. There are people who live there because it is cheap, and those who live there because it is the lifestyle they love. If you really want the local residents to start to welcome back live aboards, make the changes visible. Saying live aboards provide better security is like saying live aboards increase polution. It is an assumption with no basis of comparison. If live aboards make their status known, involve themselves with local community events that help the environment. Visible actions change minds.

[swagman]

And if anyone wishes to know - most Turkish Marinas really welcome livaboards especially during winter months.
We historically only cruised in summer months and the yachts effectively parked up in the water for the winter out there.
The 'livaboard' community in our marina actually do keep and eye on her and between them and the marina management, open her up once in a while, check out all is OK, and the if we let them know we're coming out not only organise the cab - but actually give her a clean before we arrive.
Plus to keep the expat livaboards who do winter there entertained, the mariana management not only run a club room, have a mraina based bar and restaurant with cheapo lunches, a library, freebie TV, wifi access, but also organise trips out for liveaboards who want to get away.
Just got an email asking if we're interested in joining a group flying up from Turkey to Moscow for boatshow plus sightseeing in April.......woooeeee.
Anyway - guess what I'm saying is if you get peeved in the USA with bylaws and too much officialdom, you could consider sailing over to Turkey where I know they'll make you welcome!!
Cheers
JOHN

[islandplanet]

Funny but we never felt hated during our years of living aboard. The first boat we lived on wasn't the prettiest but we kept her clean and never left stuff laying around deck or on the dock. During storms I helped corral headsails that were starting to get loose on other boats and would keep an eye on things around us. Harbormaster thanked me for small favors on several occasions and always greeted me in a friendly manner.

Many of my friends are people I met while living aboard at that marina.

Our next liveaboard was a much nicer and more expensive boat. We moved to an upscale marina in an area with better weather. Never had a problem.

We always paid our rent on time and we lived by whatever rules the marina had.

Our years of living aboard were truly the best years of our lives.

[Jackstee]

Hi Swagman
Sounds like you may be in Kemer.
I was there for two years in 88
Brill
Steve

[Capct]

My boat is south of Nanaimo.I have a slip in a marina that has float homes in them so never a problem or a feeling of prejudice for living on it.
Recently though , laws have been passed regarding sewage and how it is to be disposed of.Marinas are going to be faced with big capital projects to put in pump outs.Otherwise you have to take your vessel 3 NM offshore and pump your head.Always new laws to keep you busy in B.C.!!

Holding tanks are now mandetory on new boats and old boats have five -7 years to switch over or seal the head units.Heads with no tanks will HAVE to be sealed.
Just like Americans have been doing for ages in WA just south of us for some time

So the costs associated with the sewage that liveaboards generate is coming to the surface if you will excuse the pun.Pump out or put out.
Ten bucks in fuel or ten bucks to pump it out.

Anyway a lot of people are annoyed they have to drop 2000 bucks to put in a holding tank and a macerator that is usually accompanied by a new head assembly
Im not affected because I have had the holding system in my US built boat for 35 years.

In Vancouver however liveaboard Marina rates are now usually double the non-liveaboard rates and much higher than Vancouver Island as a rule

[S/V Elusive]

I think that one item needs to be made a bit more clear; the people at the marinas do not hate liveaboards - in fact, most like them and want them there. They are always around to lend a hand, usually are knowledgable about boat stuff, knows EVERYONE who belongs on the dock, and aren't shy about 'offering to help' someone who doesn't belong. Oh ... and in the middle of the night, when something goes CRACK, BUMP, BAM, WHOOSH, and other things boaters never want to hear, they hear it and respond ... often saving someone's boat.

So, no. It isn't other boaters in the marina that don't like liveaboards. It is usually the business manager of the marina - s/he usually isn't a boater. They don't want to mess with all the (misconceived) notions that non-boaters have about liveaboards. Or, they've seen ONE (of hundreds) who is a slob, his boat is a mess, and causes trouble, and decide all liveaboards are that way.

And then there are the "Establishment" folk who complain to the Harbor Commission/County/Parish/ etc. folk about stuff they haven't a clue about but are TOLD by reliable sources ... like ALL the sewage that is put in by liveaboards, the trash that is thrown overboard, the seediness and drug use and and and and blah blah blah blah blaaaaa. They, of course, convienently ignore all the sewage run off and overflows of the local treatment facility. They also don't like that we have a great place to live and views and a perceived idealistic place to live - and it doesn't cost a million dollars ... they just hate that we get something nice for less than they pay.

As I said prevoiusly, liveaboards KNOW who belongs .. they also know what is going on on the docks. They will let the harbor or marina folk know if bad things are going on. Unfortunately, this ADDS to the marina's view that liveaboards are undesireable (even though it was a liveaboard that informed them).

Too bad that some of those business managers (what IS their qualification anyway? ... managed an apartment for their brother ??) , don't take a few minutes to compute the free services provided by a liveaboard, and the extra money they can charge (that is a whole OTHER story and rant) and look at it from ROI and NET. HUGE benefit to them.

Okay .. the soapbox has melted. Guess I had better clean it up ... cause you know the marina isn't gonna.

[BilgeRat]

If you've ever been to Wong Chuk (the South side of Hong Kong), this is what marina owners fear when they see live-aboards. They think sewage, garbage, drugs and all sorts of disgusting situations. But yet they have never lived aboard or would even want to.

Like said earlier, Those who own the gold make the rules (or something like that). What live-aboards need to do is buy up or own the shares of stock in the marina's so that they can have more control over what is happening to them.

Most complaints are useless unless action is taken to right the situation.

Yours Aye!

[seafox]

I went to Aberdeen I think it was called in Hong Kong. It was pretty shocking. the water was black like oil. A friend of mine from Hong Kong frowned years ago when I told him I had bought a boat to live on and sail during the holidays. He could only equate it to the boat people in his City.

[S/V Elusive]

I don't have a clue about liveaboards in marinas outside of the US. I think that each section of the world (or section within the US) have varying standards of living. The lower the quality of land based living, I would suspect that the boating community would also be lower (not necessarily lower than land based, but lower than other places in the world).

And, in those areas of the world, with lower standards; the standards of enviromental concerns by governments and industrial companies are proportionately lower (IMHO). This is where I would think MOST of the polution and environmental degradation comes from. NOT from the people who either by choice or necessity live in that environment. Granted, they probably DO contribute to it, but not to the degree of the BIG polluters. And, often times, provisions for the individuals to be more environmentally aware, are not provided or available.

Here, in the US, for the most part, we have facilities to use to keep our environments cleaner. And, I believe, that a huge majority of boaters adhere to those cleaner standards.

[mikereed100]

The marinas have told me why. They get more money by renting slips to weekenders and people who don't come to the boat often. Why? They don't need the extra staff and their facilities go unused 90% of the time, as do the boats tied up. A liveaboard needs to get mail usually, takes showers frequently, has needs of the marina from time to time, etc... All this costs money. The marina, in order to maximize profits (and attract the most wealthy clients they can screw with higher rates) does better without liveaboards.

I've lived aboard for the past 27 years in several marinas and agree that this is balls-on accurate

Simple solution. hate marinas back

Also dead on. I spent 7 years on the hook in Santa Barbara and loved it. When the new boat is done I will likely be back out there if the powers that be haven't regulated the free anchorage out of existance. The problem with doing this on the west coast of NA is that there are VERY few places where it is still legal and these are all endangered.

Mike

[docsmity]

I have lived aboard for the last 2 years here in St Petersburg Fl, when the army sent me here for my last tour I said this is my chance to get a boat so I came down looking for a boat people told me you need to find a Marina first so I looked and found one for me living aboard made it so I could afford a boat and when I ret. in 5 mo. I will take me a cruse with the boat I was able to get living on it, yes for the same price I could have had a appt. but not both. I do fill like I dont make enough money to own a sailboat, everything cost so much but with the help of the other liveaboards I have learned how to get what I need at a savings. To me it seems the Condo owners buy a place on the water and think they own the water too, and god if they wanted to see a boat they would buy a brand new one to park at the dock and look at!

[spencer53]

I had a sailboat in a Channel Islands marina for years non liveaboard and the time came that my wife and I found our current boat and decided to sell our house and move aboard. (We always hated having to leave the boat to go back home). Anyway, we paid on time, all the time. Kept things clean, used the boat all the time, etc.. So, we inquire with the management about living aboard. "We'll put you on the waiting list" was the response. We ended up at another marina that I actually prefer now but that's another story. Months go by and I place a phone call to them to "take me off the waiting list". "What waiting list?" was their response. It was all B.S... The manager at that marina (Tom) reportedly made this comment to another boater there. He said, "There are only two kinds of liveaboards, druggies and losers". I'd still love to smack the crap outta that guy. We don't do drugs, we get up and go to work every day to earn our losers wage (a wage that far surpasses Mr. Marina Managers) and still we get a label from a guy that is not even a boater. I agree that there are some bad apples out there that cause this sort of stereotype but if anything I think liveaboards will respond to the bad apples in a hurry. The other liveaboards on my dock will not tolerate poor behavior any more than I will. Heck, since we LIVE HERE, we want a nice neighborhood and work to keep it that way. As far as the extra cost to the marina for my living aboard, there is none. I use the shower on my boat, I pay a private service to pump out my holding tanks, I pay the coin op laundry. I don't use their facilities. So where the heck is my liveaboard "fee" going? Rant, Rant, Rant. At least I am lucky in that our marina manager in Ventura is super. The place wouldn't be the same without her.