Why Do Marinas Seem to Hate Liveaboards?

[S/V Elusive]

AG - Yeah ... I know Tom (and his boss Brian) Both are anti-liveaboard non-boater types (how and why they manage marinas I have no idea). With that said, I lived aboard for 2.5 years - and they all knew it. So, I can't complain too much - didn't have to pay the liveaboard fee (which I would have been very willing to do ... as a legal liveaboard).

I was SO happy to move out of there and over to Ventura (long wait list though).

[sneuman]

I'd almost forgotten that I started this thread. Since I did, I found a suitable liveaboard marina in Severna Park, just north of Annapolis.

The folks at Magothy Marina offered me a 40' liveaboard slip (for my 37' cutter) without the runaround and the "waiting lists" of the others. Nice piers and facilities. There are half a dozen year-round liveaboards and a few more that don't winter there.

The liveaboard fee is a bit steep - $150/month and there's more motion than I'd like in the summer on the weekends (damn powerboats!), but other than that, no complaints.

Magothy Marina

[Lostmt]

I read this whole thread and no I am not a liveaboard. Don't even own a sailboat even tho I would love to. We are liveaboard RV'ers and live in a converted school bus. On no SCHOOL BUS must be hippies and drug addicts. This is the reaction from RV parks that we have tried to stay in. It took us 2 and half months after we left Montana and our rent house to find a park that would take us. The TWO RV Park - Welcome Home! - Now we are happy in a beautiful park and community Only problem is there are only 4 sailboats here for me to dream about. We are like a lot of sailing liveaboards that just don't have much money and want to be close to the sea.

We couldn't afford to buy one of the fancy RV's so I built one for us. All blue pine interior and fully self contained. You can see it on my wifes myspace MySpace.com - www.myspace.com/228511732 if you like.

We will be sailing liveaboards soon I hope.

Take care all,
David

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by mikereed100

I've lived aboard for the past 27 years in several marinas and agree that this is balls-on accurate

Also dead on. I spent 7 years on the hook in Santa Barbara and loved it. When the new boat is done I will likely be back out there if the powers that be haven't regulated the free anchorage out of existance. The problem with doing this on the west coast of NA is that there are VERY few places where it is still legal and these are all endangered.

Mike

EXACTLY - the only rational disadvantage to accepting live-aboards is the (possible) increased demand for shore facilities (power, water, & sometimes "space", etc).

[David M]

The answer is easy. Marinas are a business and the goal is to maximize profits. There is nothing wrong with that. Capitalism seems to work better than the alternatives.

All liveaboards do is cost the marina owners more money. Marina owners are under no obligation to provide cheap housing for the public. The only way for it to make any economic sense is for marina owners to charge probably double the price per foot to make it worthwhile. I hope I did not tick anyone off but you have to respect the needs of the business side of operating a marina. The owners deserve a decent return on their investment as well.

In the SF Bay Area we have a government agency called the BCDC which answers to nobody. The BCDC makes declarations such as "boats are landfill"...therefore we have the power to limit who can and cannot live aboard a boat. I believe the maximum number of liveaboards in a marina is at 10%. Government agencies run by out-of-control power mongering bureaucrats is another reason, at least around here, why there are limits on liveaboards.

[spencer53]

Originally Posted by David M

The answer is easy. Marinas are a business and the goal is to maximize profits. There is nothing wrong with that. Capitalism seems to work better than the alternatives.

All liveaboards do is cost the marina owners more money. Marina owners are under no obligation to provide cheap housing for the public. The only way for it to make any economic sense is for marina owners to charge probably double the price per foot to make it worthwhile. I hope I did not tick anyone off but you have to respect the needs of the business side of operating a marina. The owners deserve a decent return on their investment as well.

In the SF Bay Area we have a government agency called the BCDC which answers to nobody. The BCDC makes declarations such as "boats are landfill"...therefore we have the power to limit who can and cannot live aboard a boat. I believe the maximum number of liveaboards in a marina is at 10%. Government agencies run by out-of-control power mongering bureaucrats is another reason, at least around here, why there are limits on liveaboards.

I don't cost my marina 1 cent more because I live aboard! I use only the facilities I have on my boat. I don't use their showers, their bathrooms, etc. I pay for my electricity, I can make my own water.... As far as them making a "return on their investment" you need to look no further than the rate of inflation and compare it to the pace they increase their fees. The pure profit that my marina takes in on a monthly basis far exceeds the revenue generated by all the restaurants and businesses that are here in my harbor combined. And that is pure profit after taking out the cut the port authority takes. Top that off with a property tax that I pay to the county that is every bit as huge as the property tax I paid on my large house that I sold to buy my boat. It's insane and there is NO WAY that ANYONE can seriously defend the marina operators if they know all of the facts. I read the financials here at my harbor every month. It's public record and it's disgusting to see the amount of money they are making by gouging the crap out of everybody.

[rebel heart]

Our marina: NetHere: Browser Not Supported in San Diego, California.

We've had our boat here for a little over two years, and have lived aboard for going on six months now. I lived on my previous boat on a mooring ball, so I like to think I've done some comparisons.

In our marina, things are pretty good. Everyone likes our marina manager a lot, and she has been a liveaboard herself for 11 years. She stays at another marina, because she wants some private time too (smart girl, otherwise people would be knocking on her hull all night).

We don't have a lot of boats here, maybe 50 total. I'd say 5 of which are "legal liveaboards", and maybe at any other point in time there's 5 more boats that are doing it without paying the fees (a.k.a. sneakaboard).

In regards to the cost of liveaboards, it's really a drop in the bucket. The cost of leasing harbor front property and keeping the docks in order is light years more expensive than an additional 100 hours a month on a shower faucet. For the person above that wants to charge double, I'd really like to see their math to back that up.

Insurance is the same, coastal commission fees are the same, the lease costs are the same, and the dock maintenance is the same. The marina would have showers and a rec room anyway, so I really can't believe that the cost is that much higher.

The reality is what others have mentioned: where you have a cheap living space, dirt bags show up. Rich people tend to be cleaner (or at least have the capacity of being cleaner, like can hire someone else to do it) than poor people, and rich people generally buy fancier (prettier?) boats than poor people. So if you want a marina full of clean and pretty boats, you have a better chance of achieving that with "mega yachts" than you do with budget cruisers.

But anyone who is buying a marina to make money should probably go get a finance book and read up a bit. I'm sure you can turn a profit, but you'd make more owning a bunch of laundromats. The catch is that marinas are fun, and laundromats are lame, which is the same reason people want to start bars and night clubs. Sure, there's a financial motive involved, but it's also about doing something you want to do.

Marinas with liveaboards, and essentially "cool marinas" in general, have a good blend of "let's make money" and "let's make a fun marina". You're going to sacrifice profits a bit, but for most people (certainly anyone dumb enough to own a vessel, myself included) it's already established that we're willing to take a bit of a financial hit in order to do something we enjoy.

If I started a marina (I've thought about it, anyone who wants to set something up in Mexico send me a pm), I'd certainly make it cruiser friendly. Would I want to make money? Sure. But if all I wanted to do was make money, I'd stay in insurance. That being said, I'd ask people to not let their boats turn into harbor queens, and try my best to make a marina that people say nice things about online :-)

[cooper]

The two marinas near me both are happy to have live aboards. They charge an extra $20 aus a week to cover the increased services. They include mail delivery and all sorts of other stuff. They are both strict on excess noise (afetr all when you are in pens you can hear just about "everything" that is going on in the adjacent boats) and one dosnt allow pets because the whole marina is in a wetlands national park.

[geordieschmalz]

Hey, just joined this thread (and this forum), and I must say I didn't know how lucky I was. I bought my boat in Newport, and paid a minimal annual fee to live at the marina where it was already docked. This marina is a municipal facility, partly supported by tax dollars, and so cheap I don't want to mention it. No waiting list, and wi-fi to boot!

It is a working marina tho, lots of commercial and sport fishing, but the few sailboats here are serious about taking their owners out past the bar. We do have several 'rustic' power boats docked here with registrations a decade old; a warning to those who fail to keep up with maintenance.

Cool site, I look forward to posting more in the future, and learning all I can before its my turn to go cruising.

Livin' ON the water is cheaper than livin' near the water.

[Ex-Calif]

Rightly or wrongly, shore based people look at liveaboards as people who are "getting away with something for free." They are unhappy with their McMortgage and don't like other people to be happier than them.

If marinas were "filled" with liveaboards they would attract the attention and ire of the McMortgages who would call thier elected official and soon you would be having hearings about how bad liveaboards are.

Marina operators get it and would not care about having lot's of liveaboards if it weren't for the above facts. They don't want to fight your battle and time has proven there are lot's more McMortgages than boat people.

As to why they "can" charge so much? Can this be a serious question? Marina full? = raise rates - wait over time. Marina full again? = raise rates again. This is a luxury item we are talking about not HUD housing. There are no entitlements.

The reality is that if you don't like the marina, drop the lines and go cruising on teh hook. The Marina must have "value" to you or you wouldn't be there.

[SVDistantStar]

Ive been living aboard for 2 years now and the last 6 months of that have been on anchor. The first marina we lived for 1 year at was Buzzards Roost on Johns Island SC. That was a great liveaboard marina. Yea it did have a few of the trashy boats, but there really wasn't any bad apples. Sadly it got bought and rebuilt into the St. Johns Yacht Harbour, and is empty. Our next marina was Dolphin Cove Marina in Charleston SC. Big mistake there. The dock master is a total jerk that doesn't know anything about boats. We stayed there for about 6 months before saying enough and leaving. Since May 2007 we have been on a mooring. Its nice to be out there, and ive got 3 marinas around me. The issue here is only City Marina allows dingys to tie up. They charge $5/day or $75/month to tie up a dingy. That fee includes NOTHING at all. If you want to park in the lot a pass is $80/month or $10/day. You cant use their showers, bathrooms or laundry. The thing about all this is it was just a few people that live on boats out there that made the problem for it. We had one kid that would sleep in the showers if he was too drunk or didn't want to ride out to his boat. The good decent people that live out there are trying to get the marina to allow us to use the showers, but its been a tough fight. Oh yea, City Marina does have a "free" dingy dock, only at low tide, its at least 50' from water.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by SVDistantStar

Ive been living aboard for 2 years now and the last 6 months of that have been on anchor. The first marina we lived for 1 year at was Buzzards Roost on Johns Island SC. That was a great liveaboard marina. Yea it did have a few of the trashy boats, but there really wasn't any bad apples. Sadly it got bought and rebuilt into the St. Johns Yacht Harbour, and is empty. Our next marina was Dolphin Cove Marina in Charleston SC. Big mistake there. The dock master is a total jerk that doesn't know anything about boats. We stayed there for about 6 months before saying enough and leaving. Since May 2007 we have been on a mooring. Its nice to be out there, and ive got 3 marinas around me. The issue here is only City Marina allows dingys to tie up. They charge $5/day or $75/month to tie up a dingy. That fee includes NOTHING at all. If you want to park in the lot a pass is $80/month or $10/day. You cant use their showers, bathrooms or laundry. The thing about all this is it was just a few people that live on boats out there that made the problem for it. We had one kid that would sleep in the showers if he was too drunk or didn't want to ride out to his boat. The good decent people that live out there are trying to get the marina to allow us to use the showers, but its been a tough fight. Oh yea, City Marina does have a "free" dingy dock, only at low tide, its at least 50' from water.

That is the stuff I was thinking about.
If you are on a mooring and work..............I just don't see it working well.

[SVDistantStar]

I work an odd job. I do outboard repair, so my "work" times arent like most. Now my wife on the other hand works a 9-4 job, and i get her in to the dingy dock at 7am to take our 2-1/2yo to daycare.

[liberty16]

Reading some of these experiences makes my blood just boil! Why are non-boat enthusiasts managing marinas in the first place, and being grumpy to boot? Bloody fools. This causes me to consider making it my business to eventually manage a marina, myself. The security and helpfulness live-aboards provide would certainly offset any small increase in cost of service, as most of ya have testified.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by SVDistantStar

I work an odd job. I do outboard repair, so my "work" times arent like most. Now my wife on the other hand works a 9-4 job, and i get her in to the dingy dock at 7am to take our 2-1/2yo to daycare.

Gotta love it to do all that!