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Old 01-03-2015, 18:02   #286
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

I've already posted on why I think that cruising couples I've met quit. But there have been some posts discussing why offshore sailing is unwanted and not necessary.

In contrast, I want to say that offshore sailing can be very enjoyable and explain why I would not want to miss it. I define "offshore sailing" as out of sight of land. Cruising down the west coast of the pacific I have had many nights offshore and I would like to add that I thoroughly enjoy being offshore. We do 3 hour on, 3 hour off shifts. The moon on the water is spectacular. If there is no moon, one can see by the light of the stars. The dolphins swimming along the boat, illumined by phosphorescence, are magical. I feel that I am protecting the boat and my husband as I stay awake and make adjustments to make sure that all is well. Our bodies get used to the new schedule and we do not need to make port every night. Practically speaking, the wind tends to be steadier offshore, the swells have a longer period, and we make more distance every day on a rhumb line. Offshore, we don't have to worry about cape effect winds and currents off the frequent capes.

To sum it up, offshore sailing to me is magical and during passages I want to be offshore.
Annie
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Old 01-03-2015, 21:00   #287
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Originally Posted by Lin Pardey View Post
After 45 years of wonderful voyaging, plus delivering boats, racing boats, Larry and I stopped crossing oceans only because his advancing Parkinson's (he was 72 so couldn't complain and still doesn't complain about this intrusion in his life) made both of us feel we couldn't handle emergencies such as a sudden squall in a less than perfect anchorage. This is a similar reason given by our other very long term voyaging friends. Size of boat didn't come into the equation. In our book, The Cost Conscious Cruiser I have a chapter called The Psychology and Philosophy of Long-term Voyagers. It was written a few years back but interestingly, four of the couples mentioned are still out voyaging in the same boats - all 40 feet or shorter - so successful couple cruising doesn't seem to have much at all to do with boat length.

Thanks for the inspiration you and your mate have provided.

Btw - The former skipper of Solita, has his latest boat in a slip near me. He speaks fondly of the channel cutter and Larry.

Fair winds




------------------------------
Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.
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Old 01-03-2015, 21:41   #288
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
What is your point?
I think the point is obvious. Most cruisers are not interested in a "real recliner in their salon". Most crusers are not trying to replicate a house on the water. Most cruisers don't regret living in a vessel that has qualities different from those houses ashore.
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Old 02-03-2015, 02:41   #289
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
I think the point is obvious. Most cruisers are not interested in a "real recliner in their salon". Most crusers are not trying to replicate a house on the water. Most cruisers don't regret living in a vessel that has qualities different from those houses ashore.
Thanks Hudson...

I think that most folks who actually do longer distance cruising would have no problem understanding my point, and folks who require a recliner (etc) will never join that group.

And lack of such items will not be the cause of couples quitting... might well be the reason they never leave!

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Old 02-03-2015, 03:27   #290
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
I think the point is obvious. Most cruisers are not interested in a "real recliner in their salon". Most crusers are not trying to replicate a house on the water. Most cruisers don't regret living in a vessel that has qualities different from those houses ashore.
given boat design, I would argue you are not correct here


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Old 02-03-2015, 03:29   #291
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Why Do Cruising Couple Quit?
Setting aside the unforeseen shore side problems that can strike anyone, the main reasons couples quite is they get worn out. It is hard to live in the nineteenth century, scrimping on electricity. Worried about batteries, fighting with hot generators and all the noise just to keep the batteries up. Showers you can’t standup in and no hot water for the shower or to wash dishes. And berths that would make a pirate walk the plank. And the most important thing anchoring. Afraid that every little thunderstorm will blow you into the mangroves—that’s no way to live. That’s what I see.
It takes about ten years to work out the problems, if someone doesn’t give you a heads up…some never figure it out and quit.
The problem stems from all the marketing hype about needing the best sailing boat, the one that points highest. The truth is the best sailing boats make terrible live aboard’s. They are to deep, to narrow, you can’t load’em up with solar panels, its hurts their sailing ability.
It takes at least the following to make a good live aboard, a safe and comfortable boat that is easy and fun to live on.
· Most importantly heavy anchor gear. A heavy anchor 2lbs per 1000lbs of boat, enough chain for a 7:1 scope in whatever water you’re going to anchor in.
· Electricity…a kw of each solar and wind will take care of 95% of the weather conditions, and provide enough power to run everything you can drag aboard, except the AC.
· A shower you can stand up in…oh, so important.
· For coastal work, draft 5ft or less. You can use a little deeper, but it just limits where you can go and that’s the reason to be cruising after all…to go to neat little hidden places.
· Propane shove, cheap and easy to find fuel. No electric stoves please.
· Think bed not berth, a nice 8” thick matress.
· Marine frig, give the household frig to the Goodwill.
· A beamy boat that gives room for a real recliner in the salon.
· A big fixed three-bladed prop, you need torque to get off groundings and to motor efficiently down channels and up rivers.
· The sail rig…completely irrelevant for traveling. Nice to have as a backup and for when you want to have fun…but not for traveling.
Anyway that the way I see it.
Danny L. Davis
“Read more, be more”
Most modern yachts of a certain size would and do provide such amenities


I don't think people quit because of the boat per se.

dave
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Old 02-03-2015, 05:00   #292
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
I think the point is obvious. Most cruisers are not interested in a "real recliner in their salon". Most crusers are not trying to replicate a house on the water. Most cruisers don't regret living in a vessel that has qualities different from those houses ashore.
I don't like generalizations such as "Most cruisers" as I'm not sure how one comes up with what most do or don't when one argues even about what a cruiser does and it sure makes it seem as if those who do differently don't count. We're around many who love recliners in their salon. We perhaps frequent different places, certainly more marinas.

Now as to the "point" when I read the discussed post, I didn't by any means see it as a portrayal of why couples quit cruising, but I did see it as a perfect answer to the question of "Why do sailors switch to trawlers?" Go to a trawler forum and you'll find a substantial percentage once owned sail boats. Many here have switched. Often factors cited here for stopping cruising, don't necessarily do so, but they drive one to a different type boat. Age and health can certainly make sailing difficult if not no longer enjoyable but that doesn't always lead to quitting. Often to power. Also, many who just find the restrictive nature of a sail boat not their thing find pleasure on a trawler.

So many do keep cruising, just on a different type boat. For us, we love sailing on day sails where someone else does all the work and we'll do this in many parts of the country, and eventually of the world. We've sailed on the Chesapeake, off the coast at Fort Lauderdale, in San Francisco, off the coast of Mexico, and other places. Still for our "cruising" we'll stick to power. We do like amenities and we're a bit too lazy in terms of our recreation to be sailors.
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Old 02-03-2015, 07:21   #293
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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I don't like generalizations such as "Most cruisers" as I'm not sure how one comes up with what most do or don't when one argues even about what a cruiser does and it sure makes it seem as if those who do differently don't count. We're around many who love recliners in their salon. We perhaps frequent different places, certainly more marinas. .............................
Thanks for this well stated observation. I should have said, "Most of my cruising friends...." or "Those cruisers like myself....." . There is a group of cruisers, I believe more commonly aboard sailboats, who appreciate comfort and ergonomic design, but are not trying to replicate the use of space that is typical within houses.
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Old 02-03-2015, 07:32   #294
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
I think the point is obvious. Most cruisers are not interested in a "real recliner in their salon". Most crusers are not trying to replicate a house on the water. Most cruisers don't regret living in a vessel that has qualities different from those houses ashore.
No, the point is not obvious. If it was, I wouldn't have posted a response. It was pretty obvious that you disagreed with the other post but not why.

Now as for this post, I don't think you can speak for "most cruisers" and I know you can't speak for all cruisers. If a person or a couple want to cruise in a "motor yacht" (as you describe it), what's the harm in that? What difference does it make to you? If you and your wife enjoy "boat camping", that's fine also. It doesn't make any difference to me and shouldn't make any difference to anyone else.

I tried to make the point earlier that different people are accustomed to and satisfied with different standards of living. Personally, my wife and I are somewhere in between your "boat camping" standard and the "motor yacht" you seem to detest so much.

So are you really going to quit as you mentioned in your post?
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Old 02-03-2015, 09:52   #295
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

Quitting cruising: Two stories.
Mom and dad quit once in 1962 because mom was exhausted with home schooling four children, 12, 11, 9, and 6 who knew snorkeling was more fun than whatever mom and Calvert School had planned. (She had been home schooled aboard which was just deserts for what she made her mom suffer through!)

They quit the second time because they got too old. I guess they started round two in their fifties and ended it in their eighties. Family and age/health are two factors.

If you are having fun, why stop. If you aren't having fun... well... stop not having fun.
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Old 02-03-2015, 11:56   #296
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
No, the point is not obvious. If it was, I wouldn't have posted a response. It was pretty obvious that you disagreed with the other post but not why.

Now as for this post, I don't think you can speak for "most cruisers" and I know you can't speak for all cruisers. If a person or a couple want to cruise in a "motor yacht" (as you describe it), what's the harm in that? What difference does it make to you? If you and your wife enjoy "boat camping", that's fine also. It doesn't make any difference to me and shouldn't make any difference to anyone else.

I tried to make the point earlier that different people are accustomed to and satisfied with different standards of living. Personally, my wife and I are somewhere in between your "boat camping" standard and the "motor yacht" you seem to detest so much.

So are you really going to quit as you mentioned in your post?
Ron, you really need to relax, man. Where have you read that Hudson Force detests motor yachts? I find his posts are very accurate regarding MOST cruisers. I do have friends that are cruising liveaboards on their trawler. Also Capn Chuck (Anchorage Guy here?). Yes, actual cruising couples that have been doing it for many, many years. I'm sure they enjoy their comforts, but most important, they share the same cruising attitude as all other successful "cruising couples". You really shouldn't look down your nose at Hudson Force, or the Cates. Their posts are full of truth. How can you possibly argue with people that have been cruising for 25+years?

Ralph (still "camping out" on my boat)
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Old 02-03-2015, 12:34   #297
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Thanks Hudson...

I think that most folks who actually do longer distance cruising would have no problem understanding my point, and folks who require a recliner (etc) will never join that group.
I've got some cruising friends with a bean bag for their cockpit.....

Ralph


PS- for some of you, please notice this thread is in the Liveaboard's Forum.
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Old 02-03-2015, 13:05   #298
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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I've got some cruising friends with a bean bag for their cockpit.....

Ralph


PS- for some of you, please notice this thread is in the Liveaboard's Forum.
I've got two bean bags, they came form my Center Console, but they are just as comfortable on a sailboat
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Old 02-03-2015, 14:24   #299
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Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Two comments:



You have just described a trawler type motor yacht, not a cruising sailboat.



If those are the requirements for a successful cruising boat, I guess I'd better quit, for we lack most of them. But somehow we've been cruising full time for 28 years now...



Jim
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Jim, I had actually been thinking that the list described our cruising sailboat pretty well, though even at 13' beam we can't accommodate a recliner. We added solar after a couple of years out; we use memory foam toppers; we have a fridge and freezer combo; we can stand up in either shower but prefer the transom when in the Tropics or the summer elsewhere. She's no racer, and I wouldn't vouch for sea-kindliness on an ocean voyage (though she's quite fine on overnight voyages and had seen us through some sporty conditions in Florida, the Chesapeake and the eastern Caribbean). We have had many lovely sails, the usual share of motor-sailing, for convenience mostly, and she's not a trawler (not that there's anything wrong with that &#128527.
That said, I'm not sure that this list has much direct bearing on why couples quit. We might not have gone in the first place if we didn't both love her. And if and when we quit, it won't be because she's the wrong boat.


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Old 02-03-2015, 14:53   #300
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Originally Posted by jpsgirl96 View Post
Oops trying to post from phone, always dangerous.
Jim, I had actually been thinking that the list described our cruising sailboat pretty well, though even at 13' beam we can't accommodate a recliner. We added solar after a couple of years out; we use memory foam toppers; we have a fridge and freezer combo; we can stand up in either shower but prefer the transom when in the Tropics or the summer elsewhere. She's no racer, and I wouldn't vouch for sea-kindliness on an ocean voyage (though she's quite fine on overnight voyages and had seen us through some sporty conditions in Florida, the Chesapeake and the eastern Caribbean). We have had many lovely sails, the usual share of motor-sailing, for convenience mostly, and she's not a trawler (not that there's anything wrong with that &#128527.
That said, I'm not sure that this list has much direct bearing on why couples quit. We might not have gone in the first place if we didn't both love her. And if and when we quit, it won't be because she's the wrong boat.


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First, being happy with the boat that you already have is a paramount quality for NOT quitting cruising... whatever the boat and style of cruising may be. That is true for sure!

But the "list" to which we refer... when he said the following:

Quote:
A big fixed three-bladed prop, you need torque to get off groundings and to motor efficiently down channels and up rivers.
· The sail rig…completely irrelevant for traveling. Nice to have as a backup and for when you want to have fun…but not for traveling.
it sure sounded like a trawler to me.

And indeed, we have (both of us) enjoyed long years of full time cruising in boats which had few if any of his required features... hence my comment.

And I have nothing against trawler style m/y as cruising platforms. We have a number of good friends with such vessels, some of whom have circumnavigated, and all of whom have had longish cruising careers.

And from what you have said, I'd agree that you won't quit because of the boat being wrong. I actually think that is not so often the deciding factor in quitting.

Cheers,

Jim
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