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Old 26-02-2015, 22:33   #256
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

Many possible answers. Here are two:

1. The cruising couples aged around 30 usually have no children and a time limit of 2 or 3 years. After that they sell the boat and go make babies. I think you have to feed cabbage leaves to storks or something like that.
2. Time a sea is typically only 5% or less of time on the boat. e.g. It would be very easy to spend 2 years in the Med without being at sea more than one night in a row.
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Old 26-02-2015, 22:49   #257
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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This is a really interesting thread to browse and read every post. My first observation is that my perception of cruising is not the most mainstream.

Who cares? We like it.


1) I observe that many cruisers are retired and living on pensions. I'm in my late 30's and still very much working. My wife is in her 20's and on maternity leave from flight attending.

So?


2) It seems most or many consider cruising to be selling everything saying your good byes and sailing until you drop. For us cruising is something we do on week ends on a regular basis and plan for longer excursions (say 6-10 months) once we have the money. I don't think we've ever considered the perpetual cruising machine- I don't know how we'd ever pay for it. I don't even think it would be that much fun, if sailing to the Bahamas every 3 or 4 years is the reward for hard work now, what's the reward when you do it full time?

The perpetual cruising machine? You should try it. How would you pay for it? No idea... What's the reward when you do it full time? Too many thoughts to put into words here.


3) For those of you who aren't retired how do you make sense of taking your kids out of school- for the rest of their lives?

We are retired with income to be spent enjoying this new lifestyle. No longer willing to pay property taxes, and upkeep on automobiles (and too many other things to list).

4) Ocean passages seem to be a very popular theme. I'm a Commercial sailor- open water for me is a place I only want to be if I'm getting paid. There's nothing bloody out there, it's awful. I'd rather be close into shore watching people on beaches or meandering up rivers.

I totally agree. Long, offshore passages are over-rated, at least for us. Give me a nice, quiet anchorage at the end of the day. You can travel thousands of miles this way. No need to beat yourself up.


I'm going to speculate now. I'm a professional sailor, so naturally I'm not on my first marriage. When I consider my observations I think;

My first marriage - 44 years.


1) Retired couples who have never engaged in adventure must find full time travel very taxing, and at times disappointing. Of course very physically demanding too. I just have a 35 and the simple act of tacking in strong winds, or weighing anchor when my windlass is being a PITA can wear me out for the day.

I'm 62 years old. No auto pilot and no windlass. My wife and I do our watches. 2 on and 2 off. I have no problem dealing with my 35#Manson Supreme and 200' feet of chain. You are a wuss...sorry.


2) Why do people want to cruise for so long? I under stand some very dedicated people are built for it, but isn't one of the greatest joys of travel coming home or is that just the merchant seaman in me?

The boat is now our home. Sold that 2100 sq. ft. tax trap! The greatest joy of travel, is just that. Not going back to 4 walls, in a bed that doesn't move.


3) Kids- well, I don't need to expand on that point.

We felt pretty bad about that. He had advance warning, but when we had an offer on our home, it got real for him. He's grown since then, and we are proud. And he and his girlfriend flew into Nassau to stay with us for a week last year. They had a great time in the 70* weather, enjoying Junkanoo, when it was in the upper 20*'s back home.


4) now here's a big one, Ocean passages, not just ocean passages but general isolation and hardship. I'm a professional mariner so I've learned to endure it. But if you're making your spouse endure it, when they could be at home on the porch playing with the dog and grand kids- good luck.

Simply put, we don't do OCEAN PASSAGES. It's really not necessary, going from Texas to the Bahamas, or even down to Trinidad in the Carib. There will be plenty of challenges along the way, but maybe that is part of life that appeals to us. Sometimes things don't come easy, but if you work at it, you can do it. It beats sitting on the couch watching the boob tube, and at the end of the day, you really feel happy and energized.


Several have touched on this already, but I bet a lot of cruising couples wouldn't quit if one or both of them doesn't insist on being so hard core. You're going sailing- it shouldn't feel like work, any more than riding your motorcycle or drinking a cold beer should take over your life.
You are right. It need not be hard core, and shouldn't feel like work. Sometimes it is a bit more like work than you planned, but you still look back on it as experience. Experience makes you better as a cruiser, just as it does in a job.

I guess people like to start these threads to see if it's what they seek. There is no way to have the answer unless they give it a go. We're all different, sure wish I'd have figured it out long ago, like Hudson Force.

We are just starting year three. My wife and I are looking forward to the life ahead of us. We'll just keep moving, avoiding the cold in the winters, and hurricanes in the summers. Such is life...

Ralph
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Old 26-02-2015, 23:14   #258
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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You are right. It need not be hard core, and shouldn't feel like work. Sometimes it is a bit more like work than you planned, but you still look back on it as experience. Experience makes you better as a cruiser, just as it does in a job.

I guess people like to start these threads to see if it's what they seek. There is no way to have the answer unless they give it a go. We're all different, sure wish I'd have figured it out long ago, like Hudson Force.

We are just starting year three. My wife and I are looking forward to the life ahead of us. We'll just keep moving, avoiding the cold in the winters, and hurricanes in the summers. Such is life...

Ralph
Good one, Ralph!

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Old 26-02-2015, 23:37   #259
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

Thanks Jim. We're still figuring this cruising stuff out... there seems to be a learning curve as you go. We are slowly learning what makes us happy, and how to get there. Kind of like being a teen-ager again. Pretty fun, actually.

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Old 27-02-2015, 00:10   #260
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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You are right. It need not be hard core, and shouldn't feel like work. Sometimes it is a bit more like work than you planned, but you still look back on it as experience. Experience makes you better as a cruiser, just as it does in a job.

I guess people like to start these threads to see if it's what they seek. There is no way to have the answer unless they give it a go. We're all different, sure wish I'd have figured it out long ago, like Hudson Force.

We are just starting year three. My wife and I are looking forward to the life ahead of us. We'll just keep moving, avoiding the cold in the winters, and hurricanes in the summers. Such is life...

Ralph
Hmm, I feel like I expressed myself poorly. Your responses were all valid and reasonable, but I was trying to say something else, and I don't know how to quote in blue to respond to your comments.

Your first point "who cares we like it" wasn't in any way a judgement, it was just an observation- I just wasn't expecting the answers that were given.

My second point to retirees cruising was the same. I just didn't realise I was in the minority not being retired. No judgement.

My third point I think was reasonable. Am I still a cruiser if I can't do it full time? Like I said, I'm just a sailor, I don't have the kind of money it takes to just sail forever.

Your next point I didn't find to be relevant, I asked about school- you referenced property taxes and cars.

Offshore passages suck, we agree on that, but I recognise, if you want to go to some places, that's what it takes. I think the Americas are adequate cruising grounds for me.

My point with the marriage thing was, simply that I recognise there are weaknesses in most peoples armour.

Maybe I'm a wuss. Not worth commenting on.

I'm a live aboard, I own no property, but thanks for the lecture.

I do have children so I do consider their welfare- sorry if that offends you.

Your tv reference might be a good dig on some one else, but it was thrown at the wrong target.

My experience isn't really as limited as you presume. I have sailed my countries waters, extensively. Very extensively, 5 Great lakes, Atlantic and Arctic. I've sailed 50 000 miles in a year, granted, not cruising, but I've been out and about a bit, and like I've sailed (recreationally) on all 5 great lakes, the gulf of St Lawrence, the Canadian Atlantic and South East Arctic. So what in your opinion defines cruising experience?


Now that's 50 000 miles in one year. I'm 38 I've been sailing commercially since I was 18, commercial, government and fishing, the last 10 as master. Teen-ager but, not wet behind the ears.
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Old 27-02-2015, 00:55   #261
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Hmm, I feel like I expressed myself poorly. Your responses were all valid and reasonable, but I was trying to say something else, and I don't know how to quote in blue to respond to your comments.

Your first point "who cares we like it" wasn't in any way a judgement, it was just an observation- I just wasn't expecting the answers that were given.

My second point to retirees cruising was the same. I just didn't realise I was in the minority not being retired. No judgement.

My third point I think was reasonable. Am I still a cruiser if I can't do it full time? Like I said, I'm just a sailor, I don't have the kind of money it takes to just sail forever.

Your next point I didn't find to be relevant, I asked about school- you referenced property taxes and cars.

Offshore passages suck, we agree on that, but I recognise, if you want to go to some places, that's what it takes. I think the Americas are adequate cruising grounds for me.

My point with the marriage thing was, simply that I recognise there are weaknesses in most peoples armour.

Maybe I'm a wuss. Not worth commenting on.

I'm a live aboard, I own no property, but thanks for the lecture.

I do have children so I do consider their welfare- sorry if that offends you.

Your tv reference might be a good dig on some one else, but it was thrown at the wrong target.

My experience isn't really as limited as you presume. I have sailed my countries waters, extensively. Very extensively, 5 Great lakes, Atlantic and Arctic. I've sailed 50 000 miles in a year, granted, not cruising, but I've been out and about a bit, and like I've sailed (recreationally) on all 5 great lakes, the gulf of St Lawrence, the Canadian Atlantic and South East Arctic. So what in your opinion defines cruising experience?


Now that's 50 000 miles in one year. I'm 38 I've been sailing commercially since I was 18, commercial, government and fishing, the last 10 as master. Teen-ager but, not wet behind the ears.
Sorry, I wasn't attacking you. Just replying to your previous post, as a full time cruiser.

You have my measly 5000 miles in 2 years beat big time. Your miles and mine are different. We are cruising. Yours are not.

Ralph
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Old 27-02-2015, 01:06   #262
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
Hmm, I feel like I expressed myself poorly. Your responses were all valid and reasonable, but I was trying to say something else, and I don't know how to quote in blue to respond to your comments.

Your first point "who cares we like it" wasn't in any way a judgement, it was just an observation- I just wasn't expecting the answers that were given.

My second point to retirees cruising was the same. I just didn't realise I was in the minority not being retired. No judgement.

We coastal cruised after we met, and locally, because we did not have enough time off work to mostly do more than weekend sailing.

My third point I think was reasonable. Am I still a cruiser if I can't do it full time? Like I said, I'm just a sailor, I don't have the kind of money it takes to just sail forever.

Your next point I didn't find to be relevant, I asked about school- you referenced property taxes and cars.

As to schooling children, most of the cruisers with kids used the Calvert School way of doing things, but other countries have other methods, and possibly so does the US. Your effectiveness at doing home schooling is personality dependent, and it might not fit for either your or your partner. That said, such educated children usually return for senior year of high school, and have a huge leg up because they are far more mature than their land-based counterparts. Nonetheless, homeschooling lacks competitive exaamination, and this lack sometimes can be a problem.

Offshore passages suck, we agree on that, but I recognise, if you want to go to some places, that's what it takes. I think the Americas are adequate cruising grounds for me.

[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]I'm sure the Americas are adequate cruising grounds, but, oddly enough I disagree that offshore passages "suck". Their suckiness varies and if they are cold, wet, or icy, you got sucky in my dictionary; but if they are warm, and yez spots dolphins, birds, whales, and so forth, because you have leisure to do that, then they are rather nice. YMMV[/COLOR]

My point with the marriage thing was, simply that I recognise there are weaknesses in most peoples armour.

Maybe I'm a wuss. Not worth commenting on.

I'm a live aboard, I own no property, but thanks for the lecture.

I do have children so I do consider their welfare- sorry if that offends you.

Your tv reference might be a good dig on some one else, but it was thrown at the wrong target.

My experience isn't really as limited as you presume. I have sailed my countries waters, extensively. Very extensively, 5 Great lakes, Atlantic and Arctic. I've sailed 50 000 miles in a year, granted, not cruising, but I've been out and about a bit, and like I've sailed (recreationally) on all 5 great lakes, the gulf of St Lawrence, the Canadian Atlantic and South East Arctic. So what in your opinion defines cruising experience?

In no way do I mean to denigrate your work, but if you're cruising for fun, you look for fun; if you're working, maybe you see work.


Now that's 50 000 miles in one year. I'm 38 I've been sailing commercially since I was 18, commercial, government and fishing, the last 10 as master. Teen-ager but, not wet behind the ears.
Of course you're not wet behind the ears. My goodness, We've only 130,000 or so to our credit. But it was all cruising, and I think the mind set is different. It may not appeal to you, but I love looking at the porpoises hunting, determining who they are; the rare whales, and so on, but the deal is that it is an enrichment of our lives to do what we do. Others' MMV, and that's okay, too.


There are a few professional mariners aboard here, nigel 1, El Penguino, Boatman 61, and I'm sure there are others. They may have more to say to you.


But while I'm at it, how I get to respond to paragraphs is to make the cursor go to the end of the paragraph. If I remember, I space down. Then go to the "A" on the top line in the "advanced" format, it gives you colors, and you can pick one. It then remains until you choose another one. [COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]/COLOR] Or you can just write, and then go back, highlight it, and make it be a color, by using the "A'"s little arrow thingy.
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"][COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"][COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]
Cheers
[/COLOR][/COLOR],

Ann

Obviously from this post, I don't have the color thing down pat, either. Sorry.
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Old 27-02-2015, 01:16   #263
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Sorry, I wasn't attacking you. Just replying to your previous post, as a full time cruiser.

You have my measly 5000 miles in 2 years beat big time. Your miles and mine are different. We are cruising. Yours are not.

Ralph
Ralph, I think you had some very good arguments and I worded my first post very poorly. 5000 miles is not inconsequential. My assumption is that you sailed as master for those 5000 miles, entered unknown ports, cleared customs in foreign countries, encountered challenging weather and anchorages. These can all be very very challengeing, and no doubt required hard work and dedication on your part.

You have undoubtedly learned things that I have not- like I said- my cruising experience is limited to Canada and the United States. I aim to expand my horizon and I am putting the pieces in place, but I have not achieved many of the cruising miles stones you have. I have own a simple but effective cruising boat but the United States is very large, and I have not been able to get the time off work to cross the distance to the Caribbean cruising grounds. 2017 is my goal.

Cheers.
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Old 27-02-2015, 01:31   #264
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Now that's 50 000 miles in one year.
Sailed 50,000 nms in one year? Thats 2 circumnavigations. Its too bolder a statement to let go.

How the hell did you do 50,000 nms in a sailboat in one year?



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Old 27-02-2015, 01:35   #265
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Of course you're not wet behind the ears. My goodness, We've only 130,000 or so to our credit. But it was all cruising, and I think the mind set is different. It may not appeal to you, but I love looking at the porpoises hunting, determining who they are; the rare whales, and so on, but the deal is that it is an enrichment of our lives to do what we do. Others' MMV, and that's okay, too.


There are a few professional mariners aboard here, nigel 1, El Penguino, Boatman 61, and I'm sure there are others. They may have more to say to you.


But while I'm at it, how I get to respond to paragraphs is to make the cursor go to the end of the paragraph. If I remember, I space down. Then go to the "A" on the top line in the "advanced" format, it gives you colors, and you can pick one. It then remains until you choose another one. [COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]/COLOR] Or you can just write, and then go back, highlight it, and make it be a color, by using the "A'"s little arrow thingy.
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"][COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"][COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]
Cheers
[/COLOR][/COLOR],

Ann

Obviously from this post, I don't have the color thing down pat, either. Sorry.
Thank you very much for the support Anne, although I didn't know El Penguino and Nigel 1 were professional mariners, it's easy for me to see they are from their posts.
I actually am very in to cruising, I've done a bit, nothing like your 130 000 miles, I've never counted the miles. My experience cruising is limited to the great lakes, gulf, and Canadian Atlantic and a bit up the Labrador coast. I would very much like to expand that horizon, but as yet, have not been able to. It has to be many thousands of miles though.
I have sailed with the whales in the Saguenay, I have sailed Anta Costi, Newfoundland and Cape Breton. Thousand Islands, Georgian Bay, Apostles, White fish Bay, North Channel.
When you live in the country with the worlds biggest coastline, and have the worlds third biggest country in the way, 6 weeks vacation will not get you (by sailboat) to the Caribbean.

Just never south.
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Old 27-02-2015, 01:43   #266
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Sailed 50,000 nms in one year? Thats 2 circumnavigations. Its too bolder a statement to let go.

How the hell did you do 50,000 nms in a sailboat in one year?



Mark
Fair question Mark J. I didn't actually "sail" 50 000 miles. Professional mariners refer to their activity as sailing, but it's actually motoring- they don't make the distinction- I had no intention of misleading, I was just speaking in the common language of well- sailors.

So 17knotsx24hours a dayx30 days a month- you do the math. Its not at all outrageous.


I only hit that kind of mileage once, in a very bad ice year, running ice escort 24x7. I usually only sail about 20 000 miles or so. Last year was close to 30k though.
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Old 27-02-2015, 05:01   #267
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Fair question Mark J. I didn't actually "sail" 50 000 miles. Professional mariners refer to their activity as sailing, but it's actually motoring- they don't make the distinction- I had no intention of misleading, I was just speaking in the common language of well- sailors.

So 17knotsx24hours a dayx30 days a month- you do the math. Its not at all outrageous.


I only hit that kind of mileage once, in a very bad ice year, running ice escort 24x7. I usually only sail about 20 000 miles or so. Last year was close to 30k though.
Professionals often hit high mileage, but for the record, as strictly pleasure boaters, in 2013, we hit right at 20,000 nm and in 2014, we were at 18,000 nm. This year in two months we're already over 5,000 nm. It's very different in powerboats that have some speed. The past two days we covered 600 nm as we crossed from Panama to Grand Cayman averaging 20 knots day time and 15 knots over night. So that was about 33 hours.

Now, we're 44 and 35 years old. As we age, will we slow down? I imagine so. I expect our pace to be a bit slower. In fact, we intend to do the Loop soon and we won't put in nearly the same miles that year.

Now certainly we don't claim this is better or worse that sailboats, just more our style. So far this year we've come from San Diego to Grand Cayman. We spend time in ports, spend 4 days in our last stop. But then we can just cover more miles in the same about of time. A typical sailboat spending the same amount of time on the water we do, would probably cover about 6,000 nm.

So, as a commercial professional his numbers are toward the high side but easily achieved. A lot of sea time. Is it pleasurable? Only he can say.

Just as we're on a site where sail boats predominate, but there are many power boaters here, although somewhat less active it seems, but when I did a poll, it came out about 40%. Most of those probably trawler owners, but some of us move faster. So people who do it all many different ways, none better than the other, just better for them. Then there are the professionals. I know captains who average around 20,000 nm but others less. And those involved in commercial shipping vessels, those get far more miles in. But many of them enjoy immensely their jobs on the water.

Now, we're 44 and 35 years old. As we age, will we slow down? I imagine so. I expect our pace to be a bit slower. In fact, we intend to do the Loop soon and we won't put in nearly the same miles that year.
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Old 27-02-2015, 05:12   #268
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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Fair question Mark J. I didn't actually "sail" 50 000 miles. Professional mariners refer to their activity as sailing, but it's actually motoring- they don't make the distinction- I had no intention of misleading, I was just speaking in the common language of well- sailors.

So 17knotsx24hours a dayx30 days a month- you do the math. Its not at all outrageous.


I only hit that kind of mileage once, in a very bad ice year, running ice escort 24x7. I usually only sail about 20 000 miles or so. Last year was close to 30k though.

On a sailing forum you need to be careful of semantics.

My mother has sailed more miles than I have. On cruise ships.



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Old 27-02-2015, 06:20   #269
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

It interests me that there are different ways people define cruising and living aboard. My opinion & keeping the definitions simple:

Cruisers: People who dock, moor, or anchor in different locations.

Liveaboards: People who regularly wake up on their boats.

Liveaboard Cruisers: People who regularly wake up on their boats in different locations.
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Old 27-02-2015, 07:12   #270
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Re: Why Do Cruising Couples Quit

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I'd define a cruiser as someone who moves about in a boat every now and again, they may only do this a couple of times a year and the rest of the time be living on land and working, the defining point is they move about or "cruise" when they are on the boat at least some of the time...........
That would be us as well except for the "working" part, we are retired. However, many on this forum would not define people like this as "cruisers". The thread I started a few months ago was pretty revealing.
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