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Old 05-08-2014, 09:11   #16
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
It is almost always better to take someone as crew who is unexperienced than a crusty old salt. The unexperienced will follow orders and do what they are told. The crusty old salt will want to do things his/her way and frequently thinks they know more/better than you resulting in unecessary discussion etc.
+1 on this!
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:21   #17
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
All rules have exceptions though .
We have raced multiple times on overnight passages as a couple and been taken on board as crew as an experienced couple. No issues. Been invited back which is always a good indication of a happy skipper.

So be careful of generalisations. At least with a couple you know two crew members will get along and work well together .

Generalisations are really always somewhat dangerous

It is however difficult to offer an general advice without generalisation of some kind... Adding something like "in general", "most often" and so on to each sentence is a little unpracticable...

And... You both are out of any "profiling game"

I heavily suspect You are of this very,very special kind of people...
One meet You and just know it will be the very right idea to share an adventure with You...

Unhappily, not so much of such a people around...

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
I certainly agree on younger crew but what does that say about us older farts, LOL. I guess we have to be happy we wrote the cheques and make the decisions as apparently we are not worth **** as crew.
My guess is old farts as You and me should skipper the boats and share our incredible skills with young, nice and willing crew members (hopefully of an opposite sex)
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:28   #18
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

make sure you have some sort of a back up for your auto pilot,hand steering 2 up long distance is no fun at all,especially down wind where it will be very difficult to get the boat self steer if it is a fin keeler.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:37   #19
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

Atoll...surely you jest! I have never met anyone who could get a fin keeler to self steer down wind in the trades. I have read different reports but having played with it (with a rudder simply locked) I'm a real skeptic.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:08   #20
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

Oh yes one can. But mind normal boats are optimized for UPWIND/downwind work, hence a self steering rig on a bermuda sloop may vastly degenerate your "performance".

Two poled out (poled out and forwards) jibs set along the mast (their luffs along the mast) will let any boat go downwind. Their sheets will be used to trim the rudder.

Think of a windex, it is stable downwind, isn't it.

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Old 05-08-2014, 10:17   #21
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

I've screwed around with double poled out head sails on fin keel boats and never have I been able to get them to self steer in the trades. I've had some success in lighter winds and smaller seas but not in the trades so therefore I'm skeptical. Maybe some of the skeg hung rudders and long fins might be able to pull it off but its simply something that I have tried and not been successful at.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:22   #22
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

Our watch system:

The ugly:
- sunrise till 14:00 (boat time),
- sunset till 02:00,

The good:
- 02:00 till sunrise,
- 14:00 till sunset,

We tend to have some overlap time at sunrise and sunset. The ugly has the total of about 16 hrs on watch and will routinely run out of reading material. The good will stand the total of 8hrs of watch and will do most of the cooking.

This may work for some.

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Old 05-08-2014, 10:48   #23
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

We've been together for 20 years and have been living onboard full time sailing from Northern Germany to the middle of the med since March so far so good

Good advice though. I was thinking more of the tiredness factors but there's a lot of great advice in here regarding watch patterns that I'm going to look into.

The day bed sounds great as well!



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Old 05-08-2014, 11:09   #24
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

Simon,
Although never done a rally, I've crossed the Atlantic twice (both ways) with a total of 3 on-board, myself and two others....(and have also done it with a total of 5 on-board..)
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonpickard View Post
We will be doing the ARC rally in Nov and were wondering if anyone's done this here as a couple and how you found it?

Three days is one thing, twenty or so is another I'm guessing.

What problems, stresses, etc, does that place on you if there's only two people on board? Or wouldn't you even conciser doing the ARC with just two?
I'm assuming you'll be on a 38' monohull (your Hanse 385)??
So, I base my thoughts on that, and what you wrote here....

a) Yes, you CAN do it, with just the two of you...even if nothing breaks, and you have good/decent weather the whole way (yeah, like that's going to happen!), it will be tiring....
But, if you're both truly game-for-it, then by all means go-for-it!!


b) Adding a 3rd person would make life on-board easier on all...(assuming you got the "right" person, that everyone gets along well with!)
I don't think it is necessary, but it can be nice to have the extra help, stand watches, etc..
Most importantly, it will allow everyone to get more rest/sleep!! (always a good thing!!)

In general, aside from the usual "don'ts" of drugs, alcohol, DUI, criminal records, arrest warrants, etc....
Here are a few others...
Do NOT take on crew that's:
-- Looking for a ride...
-- Looking for adventure...
-- Looking for their first ocean crossing...

But, DO look for an addition crew member that:
-- Is a NICE guy / girl....NOT a jerk!!!
-- Has a sense of humor!!!
-- May be a family member, distant cousin, etc...
-- Longtime friend, co-worker (former or current), old next-door neighbor, etc...
-- Marina mate, dock mate, fellow yacht club member...
-- Experienced offshore sailor, w/ previous ocean crossings themselves...

And, some other pluses are:
-- They can cook on-board when at sea (this is NOT something that everyone knows how to do....but I'm better at this, than I am at cooking at home on-shore!)
-- They own/sail the same boat....(I know many owners of sisterships who crew for other owners on deliveries to/from the US and Caribbean every year...and they all know the boat very well...even though there have only been 185 produced in the past 15 years...)
-- They're good with their hands, mechanically inclined, etc...
-- They can SAIL...(and I don't mean around buoys...)
-- They can NAVIGATE....(and I don't mean use a GPS, laptop, or chartplotter)

The list can go on, but you get the gist....


c) Adding a 4th person is probably not a good idea, unless they are related to / married to the "3rd person"....and even then, probably a bad idea...
Depending on your accommodations, water supply, food supply, personal space, etc. having 4 on-board for a long offshore passage, on a 38' monohull is pushing it...
(I would not recommend it....)


I hope I helped some...

Fair winds..

John
s/v Annie Laurie
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Old 05-08-2014, 13:23   #25
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

We have not done the ARC but We have done 3 trans atlantics, always 2 handed. To us one of the most important pieces of equipment is good self steering, we much prefer wind vanes to the electrical coastal hopping devices.

For a watch system we do 3 hours on during the night hours and rest during the day if the other person is around.

We find the body gets used to the watch system after a few days, anything from 3 to 6 days, the longer the trip the easier it is. We find that any passage between 16 hours and 36 hours short handed is more tiring as the body does not have time to get used to the watch hours and you arrive at your destination more tired and making more mistakes.

We always reduce sail at night to save waking the off watch member up in squalls and no wandering around on deck at night on your own.

We have a load buzzer in the aft cabin where we sleep for emergencies, short buzzes mean get up here, no great emergency, LONG Buzzes means get up here NOW!!!!

You may find getting insurance for 2 handed crossing a problem

Good luck
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Old 05-08-2014, 13:47   #26
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

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...........Fourth - do not take a pair of friends as a crew. This solution can be only a shade better than taking a couple and can be not better at all...........
Or a good recipe to lose beloved friends
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Old 05-08-2014, 13:57   #27
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

That's for all the good advise.

We checked our insurance and they said were good to go with just the two of us but they recommend three.

We've got a few overnight passages coming up so will test out some of these ideas.

It's funny on day three of our Biscay crossing I started to feel like we were 'getting it' and we were sleeping well during the day. Then we saw Spain and the tiredness hit us like a brick for some reason. It's almost like our bodies and brains went.. Woohoo you've made it! Time to relax. Took another four hours from that point which were hard work!



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Old 05-08-2014, 15:28   #28
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by simonpickard View Post
That's for all the good advise.

We checked our insurance and they said were good to go with just the two of us but they recommend three.

We've got a few overnight passages coming up so will test out some of these ideas.

It's funny on day three of our Biscay crossing I started to feel like we were 'getting it' and we were sleeping well during the day. Then we saw Spain and the tiredness hit us like a brick for some reason. It's almost like our bodies and brains went.. Woohoo you've made it! Time to relax. Took another four hours from that point which were hard work!
Simon, routines that work well vary tremendously between couples, so it is good you have time to test it out.

We like the loose schedule as it allows for greater flexibility and that is very necessary when conditions are bad (no more than a couple of hours on watch at a time may be ideal then). It allows rest to be taken rather than pushing on fatigued just because the schedule says it is time for a six hour watch for you.

Also, the five shifts per 24 hours works best if you and your partner work on similar internal time clocks. My husband is a night person and functions extremely well until way past midnight. I am far happier hitting the sack early and then having a 3am watch. So we work best on roughly similar watches each night. Take that into consideration too.
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Old 05-08-2014, 17:24   #29
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

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Originally Posted by ka4wja View Post
b) Adding a 3rd person would make life on-board easier on all...

John
s/v Annie Laurie
I would be extremely reticent taking on an extra person on a long downhill passage. You just can't turn back after 24 hours and dump the ratbag off!

The person who is your team has been partnered with you for 20 years, not 20 minutes, and there's a liklihood of doing 20 days as you have done all your 'together' challenges in life.

Where does a third person fit?
Did you need one on your honeymoon? When you bought your first house? car?... any decision? Any vacation, adventure, sojourn?

I used to think a 38 footer was a big boat, but then I got 2 of us on a 39 footer, and unless your 38 is bigger than my 39 they are bloody small! (Mind you the Titanic would be too small for some partners!).

So unless the person coming as crew had done seriously long passages with you I wouldn't consider it.

Last time I was in Las Palmas at the beginning of the ARC there were probably 100 young kids looking for crewing positions on boats. I was amazed at the number who got offers within a day or so of the gun being fired. So these skippers had less than 2 days to know someone they were going to be relying on for 20 days? They musta been kidding!
So how did they go? well, by jingo, by crikey, sunshine, the after party at Rodney Bay is a pearler for crew stories. Lots of stories and lots of them horror stories.


I've made some life long mates in these two guys at Las Palmas. But sail with them for 20 days? Not on your bloody Nellie!


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Old 06-08-2014, 00:15   #30
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Re: Who's Done the ARC Rally as a Couple?

Geez Mark..those guys look like your Brothers!
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