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Old 22-07-2014, 21:29   #16
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Re: Which Cabin?

There is no need for v-berths in a forward cabin with a mid-sized boat.

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Old 22-07-2014, 22:05   #17
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Re: Which Cabin?

Methinks that is a powerboat...

(Waiting for the day when I have a choice of cabins to sleep in...)
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Old 22-07-2014, 22:10   #18
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Re: Which Cabin?

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Methinks that is a powerboat...

(Waiting for the day when I have a choice of cabins to sleep in...)
So what? A bow is a bow. There's no innovation with sailboats' forward cabins?
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Old 22-07-2014, 22:23   #19
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Re: Which Cabin?

You need quite a bit of beam to execute the offset berth.

While I do like the offset berth I don't think I've seen a queen or bigger on a sailboat less than 45 feet.

If you really wanna get "outside" the box - how about a front cockpit boat... Of course that's wher you want all the crew weight - LOL
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Old 22-07-2014, 22:50   #20
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Re: Which Cabin?

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While I do like the offset berth I don't think I've seen a queen or bigger on a sailboat less than 45 feet.
They call the top layout a pullman but in reality its an offset berth and the bottom Mk2 has the pullman.
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Old 22-07-2014, 23:06   #21
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Re: Which Cabin?

OK - I'll stand corrected at 38 feet but still to get the MKII layout the bed itself has to be pretty far aft.

Can't tell from the drawings what is being traded off here in the different layouts but teh MKII does look comfy...
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Old 22-07-2014, 23:24   #22
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Re: Which Cabin?

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
You need quite a bit of beam to execute the offset berth.

While I do like the offset berth I don't think I've seen a queen or bigger on a sailboat less than 45 feet.
It was so easy to forget the Rawson 30? Surely enough beam for a two-person forward berth. A queen-sized bed? Now you're sounding like a powerboater rather than a sailboater. Little need for more than a double (like mine with the stronger-bladder person inboard) unless one is a berth-bound liveaboard or have a luxurious yacht.
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Old 22-07-2014, 23:32   #23
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Re: Which Cabin?

Too many boat builders have "bugged" me with crowding too many berths in a boat.
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Old 23-07-2014, 00:06   #24
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Re: Which Cabin?

methinks if you want to show powerboat lay-outs then how about cat lay-outs as well.that could confuse the OP original question and turn this into a mono versus multihull thread. like that comment that v-berths can become Zero G training while underway as can leaving the cockpit.the first one drops you to your deck and the second bounce tosses you overboard.going on deck can get downright lethal in rough seas.however some find that exciting most of the time till they get bounced off the deck without a PFD or lifeline.Zero G training is right.then you open the hatch and get 10 gal of water dumped on the v-berth.so you turn on the A/C but it requires this noisy generator to be running so you start thinking that genset would be in the other hull making alot less noise if i had bought a cat.fairwinds and godspeed.
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Old 23-07-2014, 01:21   #25
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Re: Which Cabin?

Let me say this about those HC drawings:

Only the Mark II has one berth that is parallel to the centerline of the boat, so that boat has only one decent sea berth. And you'd have to fill up the outboard part of it to use it at sea.

Mabel Gee, I don't know what your cruising plans are, if all it is is day sails with a quiet anchorage at the end of it, almost any old berth arrangement will provide a good night's sleep. If your plans include multi-24 hr. day passages, then sleeping underway is a priority. Now, I quit counting sea miles at somewhere over 175,000, but it does represent a number of nights and offwatches at sea. What we found worked best are berths that are parallel to the centerline because your body stays put where you laid it, rather than sliding "downhill" on the leeward side. One advantage of the traditional V berth is that with the bulkhead there, you can lean against it and read (if you've installed a light to read by) and you can get out of the bed to check the anchor or whatever without waking your partner. We actually filled in that gap on our 36 footer, and had it be bed all the way across, but we were more limber then.

For ourselves, we think allotting the space that center cockpit boats often allot to the aft cabin is silly usage of space: why so much for somewhere you spend only 1/3 of the time? I think it "chops up" the available volume of the boat. Furthermore, center cockpits are wetter, and the shelters people build over them to make them tenable are ugly, add considerably to windage and therefore hinder sailing performance. However, some people, with somewhat different values, love them.

There's a lot to be said for traditional layouts in boats, though they've gone a bit out of fashion for some. FWIW, our boat has two aft cabins, with one a double, and the other two singles, all parallel to the center line on the inboard side, and one berth fwd, which is a standard double. Downwind, the offwatch sleeps fwd. Upwind, aft, and we use the double, with all the spare pillows to engineer a berth that is quite narrow and snug. Snug is good, because sometimes wave action tries to roll you around uncomfortably.

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Old 23-07-2014, 06:12   #26
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Re: Which Cabin?

It seems that too many people here have witnessed a negative feature of a specific layout and then expanded this with the assumption that this feature is always bad.

We hear that aft cabins are stuffy, little used spaces that are dark caves and uncomfortable at sea.

You can not sit up and read in V-berths. V-berths are hard to enter & exit. They are too short and too close to the head.

"Pullmans" trap one sleeper in the bed and roll them about at sea.

Center cockpits are wetter and they have ugly enclosures with excessive windage.

All these traits can be true for specific vessels, but none of them are absolutes. There are plenty of brgiht, well-used and ventilated aft cabins. There are big & comfortable V-berths and Pullmans. There are lower center cockpits that are dry without large enclosures. There's too much variety among boats to allow us to claim a negative or positive trait about these features.
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Old 23-07-2014, 08:32   #27
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Re: Which Cabin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
It seems that too many people here have witnessed a negative feature of a specific layout and then expanded this with the assumption that this feature is always bad.

We hear that aft cabins are stuffy, little used spaces that are dark caves and uncomfortable at sea.

You can not sit up and read in V-berths. V-berths are hard to enter & exit. They are too short and too close to the head.

"Pullmans" trap one sleeper in the bed and roll them about at sea.

Center cockpits are wetter and they have ugly enclosures with excessive windage.

All these traits can be true for specific vessels, but none of them are absolutes. There are plenty of brgiht, well-used and ventilated aft cabins. There are big & comfortable V-berths and Pullmans. There are lower center cockpits that are dry without large enclosures. There's too much variety among boats to allow us to claim a negative or positive trait about these features.
I have enjoyed reading this thread, and thank you all for your input.

I have read all the posts in this thread and while many make good points, I believe your post (above) makes the most overall sense.

Generalizations (and stereotypes) may make it easy to categorize things, but with the diversity of designs and many manufacturers of boats, it is important to consider the specific boat and the specific use (e.g. at anchor, at marina, underway) and the specific preferences (couples that sleep separately, couples that sleep snuggling together) or needs (e.g. comfort/speed/nocturnal get out of bed reasons/simplicity/cost) of the user/sailor.

For example, there are some boats with aft cabins that I would NOT want to sleep in, while another boat may have an aft cabin that looks wonderful and comfy for the marina or liveaboard, but also could be uncomfortable while underway in stormy weather and big seas. Two extreme examples, with many others in between.

For another example, I have seen boats with tiny quarter berths (that look like coffins with very low or no headroom) and others that look very comfortable.
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Old 23-07-2014, 08:50   #28
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Re: Which Cabin?

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Originally Posted by Mabel Gee View Post
We don't understand why there are just fewer CC boats. Can someone enlighten us?


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Now this is just my opinion, and I am somewhat a newbee, with very little experience,
But in my opinion the CC usually has a somewhat smaller cockpit, and I enjoy a large cockpit, spend more time there than you might think, even some meals. More time there than in bed anyway, actually I bet I spend more time in the cockpit than I do down below.
Again an opinion, but it's larger boats, larger than say 40' that the CC design becomes workable, and most boats are 40' or smaller.

There is of course only so much volume in a hull, use it for a nice large cockpit and it has to come out of the interior space.
I think it depends largely on what is your intended use of the boat, if it's being in an anchorage is the most important, then a CC may well be your boat.
Myself I undervalued a nice big aft cockpit when we were looking, but now that I have gotten used to it I wouldn't like to lose it. I have a rule, maybe a silly rule, but at night nobody is in the cockpit by themselves, even in light winds, 100% illumination moon etc. and those nice long cockpit benches come in real handy then.
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Old 23-07-2014, 10:02   #29
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Re: Which Cabin?

On of my favourite places on my old boat was the deck behind the cockpit over the aft cabin. You could stretch out and suntan on it when in calm weather or at anchor.
One downside to a lot of aft cabins is egress in an emergency (say fire in saloon) I'd get pretty claustrophobic sleeping somewhere that I couldn't scoot directly out of. I think it's a requirement now (at least for new boats sold in the Canadian market) to have an adequate hatch size in all sleeping areas.

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Old 23-07-2014, 10:24   #30
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Re: Which Cabin?

It Depends:
In warm climate, at anchor, .. the V berth wins hands down for me. Plenty of fresh air, I can hear the anchor chain and other things going on.

At a dock, and in cool climates the big aft cabin wins.

The Pullman never wins, is hard to get in and out of with a partner and stuffy.
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