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Old 04-02-2016, 14:12   #76
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

ye know, if it is a GOOD boat, ye wouldnt have to ask the question, you would faithfully continue to make her better with each thing ye do .

sad, but some folks donot have the passion for their boats. they need it. helps keep the fail away.
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Old 04-02-2016, 15:30   #77
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

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sad, but some folks donot have the passion for their boats. they need it. helps keep the fail away.
So true.

I've been working on my engine lately and I've had others tell me my boat was abused and neglected because of all the issues I've found with it.

When it comes to taking care of an engine, it's more than just changing the oil and fuel filters at regular intervals or zincs if they have it (my Yanmar has two). It also means not babying a diesel engine. They have to work hard to work well. My engine had clocked exhaust valves, missing zincs (at least the one I can get to) from being eaten away, clogged cooling passages, cracked piston, previous oil leak from failed valve cover gasket, layers of rust at the exhaust mixer, and surprisingly the thing still worked. Basically, if it spends it's life at idle, just going in and out of a marina in the no wake zones, it's not going to last long. I inherited an engine with just over 700hrs and it was on the verge of death due to previous owner(s) not taking good care of it. I'm taking my time to fix the issues and it's starting to pay off.

There are a lot more some owners can do to take care of all systems on their boats, but some wait until it's too late to replace a hose, change a wire, or any number of things and next thing you know, it sinks or up on the hard waiting for repairs that may not happen.
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Old 04-02-2016, 19:39   #78
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

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When is it time to give up on a “good old boat”, cut your losses, and buy a new boat? Believe me, I’ve been down this road before. By an older boat, spend time and money fixing it up, and then eventually sell it. We are now back at that same point. We bought a classic boat with a great layout, and 35 years under her keel and have spent the last year addressing everything you would expect to find on a boat of this vintage. Along the way there were a few extra hiccups. A defect on the bottom of the keel resulted in a $10K repair as we discovered water all along the encapsulated lead keel. Then there are other things we still need to address. There’s some water intrusion in the balsa core side decks, the engine needs to be replaced, the plumbing and electrical systems needs some upgrading – everything you would expect in a boat of this age. In the past it was always a trade-off of our time and effort to get a better boat out of it all. Now it seems that there is not enough time, when we would rather be sailing than spending time in the yard renovating. What’s the tipping point? In the end it would be money ahead to stick it out with the renovation, but the time wasted is something we can’t get back. Is this just the way of it? We were just interested in finding out some other people’s perspective on what I am sure is an all too common scenario.

Thanks,
J.M.
I haven't read through all the responses yet but will in time.

Your heart will tell you many hours of labor and dollars in expense after your mind has already said enough is enough. In other words if you've thought about leaving the project and letting it go to another dreamer then you are overdue.

I've been there and now need to get rid of my big yard ornament boat project. Both my heart and my mind have agreed. It's way passed time to let go.

Good luck in whatever you decide. I have a reconditioned and rebuilt engine and transmission in a great hull. All the parts and pieces are there but the physical ability is gone.

kind regards,
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Old 12-02-2016, 15:52   #79
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
ye know, if it is a GOOD boat, ye wouldnt have to ask the question, you would faithfully continue to make her better with each thing ye do .

sad, but some folks donot have the passion for their boats. they need it. helps keep the fail away.
This is it in a nutshell. We keep going no matter what because we just truly love this boat. She feels like home. We're looking forward to the journey with her and we never really think of having another.
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Old 12-02-2016, 16:01   #80
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

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No, it's all changed now.

My Bother-in-law though who is going on 80 actually has a dead rise 16' he had made by Jester on Chincoteague back in the 70's.

He uses it for duck hunting.

I actually bought my sailboat where we used to purchase peeler crabs for fishing back in the day directly from the watermen at their Crab House. The crabs were in those floating wooden cages in the water.

That's all gone also. Just the buildings remain without the docks leading to them

There's a small boatyard there now. It used to be the town of Deep Creek, but it's all considered Onancock now even though it's 6-7 miles from there.
Sorry to hear that. A unique way to build in wood. No ribs an athwart ship bottom. Such is life.
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Old 16-02-2016, 17:43   #81
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

This is a great question! My boat was headed to the junkyard but I decide to bring her back to life... Still working on her but this question runs through my mind often...
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Old 16-02-2016, 19:30   #82
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

All my boats were between 25 and 35 yrs old when I got them. Only the first one required structural repairs which prevented me from splashing her until a little over a year after acquiring her (but it was OK as I got her for the cost of a haul from the owner's yard). Of the 5 boats one had to be junked (but that was also OK as I got her for free) and only because I found a sister boat in sail away condition for under $2,000 and did not want to have too many boats on my hands.

Each boat (except the one junked) was sailed and worked on at the same time. Yes, some of the seasons were shorter than others because I had to do this or that well into June instead of splashing in early May but I still got decent amount of sailing and use, all considered.

Overall counting all the expenses, in my 10+ years of ownership of different boats I probably spent spent less on them combined than I would pay taxes, insurance and maintenance costs on a boat of similar size had I bought one new 10 years ago. And that would not include the loan carrying costs, etc.

What this choice, picking older cheaper boats and minimal "nice to have" work done vs. going brand new, has allowed me is more sailing time during the season as I don't have the financial pressures which would hang over me with large boat loan over my head. And if I have to choose working on my boat vs. working in general just to pay for the boat I will always choose the former as I am not one of the lucky ones who had chosen a career which they truly love. And I compensate that mistake by being around the boats which I do love. Even if it means working on them and not sailing them at that moment.
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Old 18-02-2016, 16:27   #83
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

Good reply island time 025!
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Old 18-02-2016, 16:33   #84
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post

Overall counting all the expenses, in my 10+ years of ownership of different boats I probably spent spent less on them combined than I would pay taxes, insurance and maintenance costs on a boat of similar size had I bought one new 10 years ago. And that would not include the loan carrying costs, etc.

I think this is a very good point.

If someone is thinking newer, they need to consider taxes, insurance, and financing, which can cost almost as much as the older boat.

You can find some great deals on older boats, partially because they can't be easily financed.
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Old 24-02-2016, 13:13   #85
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

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This is it in a nutshell. We keep going no matter what because we just truly love this boat. She feels like home. We're looking forward to the journey with her and we never really think of having another.
Amen!!!

Owning boats I was in love with took priority over so much else for me, I went without to keep my boat afloat...

On the other hand, just unloaded a boat I wasn't in love with anymore...nothing worse than owning a boat you're not in love with anymore; you loathe working on it, especially get irritated spending $$$ on it as they become a nuisance you begin to despise.

Best days in boat ownership I think of like jobs, best days are first when you took possession and that day lives on if you're in love with your vessel; otherwise you come to make happen/embrace the latter, the day you got rid of the vessels physical & financial liability.
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:01   #86
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

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I actually find working on the boat quite therapeutic. As opposed to day sailing which is sometimes nerve wrecking when you have landlubber guests who keep treating the galley, the head and the boat in general as though they were home.

Not to mention the satisfaction of accomplishing some task or project which I could never afford if I had to get the boatyard to do it for me.
That "Therapy" element. Yes that!

I work on my house we are preparing to sell next year, it drains my very soul.

I work on the boat for a few hours and I am smiling for days.

I've rebuilt/restored 5 boats, three were old classic wooden motor yachts 26 to 42 feet, a Bristol 24 and most of the work on my Formosa 35. We are now in a refit of our work of art, even thought she's a "Clorox Bottle" she has bones unlike any of the others and a mind blowing design for her day. Our Tyler Craft T42. (I've also built a few dinghies over the years but sold my soul for a RIB.

I think it comes down to the question of figuring out what you want. I like boats I can use but work on and improve. Work on her in the morning and sail someplace so you can work on her the next day. Oh yea, cruising, "The art of sailing to exotic places to repair your boat." My opinion is do not buy a boat you can't launch by June. I don'y care if you buy it in July or May, but don't spend next Summer on the hard.

There will always be yard and dock queens.

There will always be lost dreams.

Everything not involving below the toe rail or through the hull can be fixed in the water. Even if you only motor around the creek, the reward of a creek putter is worth a day of cleaning teak.
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Old 03-04-2016, 14:07   #87
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

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That "Therapy" element. Yes that!

I work on my house we are preparing to sell next year, it drains my very soul.

I work on the boat for a few hours and I am smiling for days.

I've rebuilt/restored 5 boats, three were old classic wooden motor yachts 26 to 42 feet, a Bristol 24 and most of the work on my Formosa 35. We are now in a refit of our work of art, even thought she's a "Clorox Bottle" she has bones unlike any of the others and a mind blowing design for her day. Our Tyler Craft T42. (I've also built a few dinghies over the years but sold my soul for a RIB.

I think it comes down to the question of figuring out what you want. I like boats I can use but work on and improve. Work on her in the morning and sail someplace so you can work on her the next day. Oh yea, cruising, "The art of sailing to exotic places to repair your boat." My opinion is do not buy a boat you can't launch by June. I don'y care if you buy it in July or May, but don't spend next Summer on the hard.

There will always be yard and dock queens.

There will always be lost dreams.

Everything not involving below the toe rail or through the hull can be fixed in the water. Even if you only motor around the creek, the reward of a creek putter is worth a day of cleaning teak.
Yep. Absolutely
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Old 03-04-2016, 14:12   #88
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

When you give up on a good old boat is entirely a personal decision.
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Old 03-04-2016, 14:50   #89
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

[QUOTE=Cheechako;2033927]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam Wald View Post
Personally I would prefer to sail a boat as opposed to working on it. Of course all boats require a certain amount of time spent working to keep things right.
That said, I believe that it is best to find a boat model that you really like and then go out to locate one that is 1-2 years old, wait until a rainy day in January and make a low-ball offer.
I bought my current boat 13 years ago. It was 1 year old at the time I bought it on a rainy winter day. The original owner had spent a good deal of $$$ on gear and had sailed the boat only a few times. The boat had never been slept in or the galley used and there were almost no hours on the engine. Everything was just about perfect.
I bought the boat for almost 40% less than it originally sold for. I have sailed it thousands of miles with very little maintenance and zero gear failures.
I am absolutely convinced that had I bought an older boat for half the price it would have probably cost the same $$$ by the time I had made it right and I would have spend months if not years working instead of sailing.[/QUOTE]

That has been my experience for sure. It's very easy to convince yourself that you can "just fix this and that" and be sailing. Unfortunately things take 4x as long as you thought and in the process you discover 2x the problems you noted. Work some over time and be sailing now.
Whether buying older or newer you need to itemize what the boat needs, what the risky parts of the design are, and go with the one with "little needed".

The actual difference in your life can be HUGE.
A) Project boat:.. after working all week, you go to the damp cold boat and try to figure out where to start. What tools? Where to get the materials? By the end you have made no progress and half your weekend is done.
B) Turn key boat: Pack up the cooler and go sailing.


The most succinct way of putting it I have heard.
By the way, 4x as long times twice the items to do = factor 16.
About right in my case.
Unfortunately the human connection with boats clouds the issue and thus knowing when a cause is lost.

Hopefully the ensuing adventures dull the idiosy of it.
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Old 03-04-2016, 15:27   #90
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Re: When to give up on a good old boat

[quote]I am absolutely convinced that had I bought an older boat for half the price it would have probably cost the same $$$ by the time I had made it right and I would have spend months if not years working instead of sailing.[/QUOTE]

Conceptually and realistically, this is true, as has been borne out from thousands of discussions. Just do some research on "project boats" and you'll soon see.

My experience was just the opposite. We found a 12 year old boat in immaculate condition. It was 1/2 the price of new boats, literally. I couldn't justify twice the price for essentially the same boat.

But I still had to upgrade the entire electrical system, which I would have had to do to the brand new boat (because boat builders don't have a f*cking clue, then or even now!!!) Of course, I wouldn't have had to install new blocks or running rigging, but I could spread that out over time.

We've had the boat for 18 years now, just got 3,000 hours on the engine yesterday!

I don't think there's much different than I would have had to do to this boat compared to the brand new one.

Other than the fact that it has 888 engine hours more than the newer one would have, it's still solid and I know every inch.

So, point is, if you can avoid a "project boat" but can find one in good shape, then 1/2 price is not always dangerous.

And, I know, I compared brand new to my boat back then. But sometimes one is faced with the same comparisons of "experienced" vs. "newer."

Good luck. It helps if you know what you're looking at and reply on surveyors as people who confirm what you already know.
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