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Old 16-11-2014, 15:03   #61
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

B&B, exactly which FLS do you have?

The performance that you quote is better than most experience.

Jim
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Old 16-11-2014, 15:36   #62
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

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B&B, exactly which FLS do you have?

The performance that you quote is better than most experience.

Jim
Far Sounder 1000.
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Old 16-11-2014, 15:56   #63
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

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Far Sounder 1000.
Well, B&B, I had a look at the Far Sounder and while it has very impressive specs, I kinda wonder what vessel you have that is capable of supporting it?

Let's see:

Transponder weight almost 100 lbs.

Power requirements: 120 watts at 110VAC

Electronic box is rack mounted.

The transducer seems to require a special mounting pod that would extend out from the hull by a large but not specified distance, creating enormous hydrodynamic drag.

Price: left to your imagination, but it must be astronomical by yottie standards.

These specs seem to preclude its use on most cruising yachts as we know them. It seems to be aimed at the very super yacht, commercial or expedition ship market. which category is your vessel?

It's promised performance sounds wonderful, but I fear that it is beyond the scope of most cruiser's capabilities and capacities.

Jim
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Old 16-11-2014, 16:04   #64
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Well, B&B, I had a look at the Far Sounder and while it has very impressive specs, I kinda wonder what vessel you have that is capable of supporting it?

Let's see:

Transponder weight almost 100 lbs.

Power requirements: 120 watts at 110VAC

Electronic box is rack mounted.

The transducer seems to require a special mounting pod that would extend out from the hull by a large but not specified distance, creating enormous hydrodynamic drag.

Price: left to your imagination, but it must be astronomical by yottie standards.

These specs seem to preclude its use on most cruising yachts as we know them. It seems to be aimed at the very super yacht, commercial or expedition ship market. which category is your vessel?

It's promised performance sounds wonderful, but I fear that it is beyond the scope of most cruiser's capabilities and capacities.

Jim
Agreed and that becomes the next issue, reducing the size. It is primarily a commercial system.
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Old 16-11-2014, 16:06   #65
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

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Very interesting descriptions of your (early) impressions. I've read about cruisers in the S. Pacific using it quite effectively to navigate through narrow entrances to coral atolls, etc. Like everything else, I imagine the technology will only improve over time. I am definitely interested in following any developments.
G'Day Exile,

As you can see from the above post, the FLS that B&B is touting is a bit over the top for most cruisers. We have had some lengthy discussions of the use of more applicable units (Interphase Probe and Echotech (?)) here on CF before, and if you are interested, a bit of searching on the subject will bring up quite a lot of information, including long term experience with the units.


We find ours useful but not able to detect things like floating containers in a seaway.

Jim
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Old 16-11-2014, 16:18   #66
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

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G'Day Exile,

As you can see from the above post, the FLS that B&B is touting is a bit over the top for most cruisers. We have had some lengthy discussions of the use of more applicable units (Interphase Probe and Echotech (?)) here on CF before, and if you are interested, a bit of searching on the subject will bring up quite a lot of information, including long term experience with the units.


We find ours useful but not able to detect things like floating containers in a seaway.

Jim
I don't know ours would detect floating containers in the seaway either. Hope to never know. It supposedly will under moderate conditions only on a boat our size. And that is certainly not what we have it for.

Interphase Probe and Echopilot both seem to be worth consideration as they keep improving. Simrad has really focused on the fishing industry. I know Garmin purchased technology but don't know what they've done with it.

What do you have, Jim?
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Old 16-11-2014, 17:27   #67
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

I second the thoughts on problems in the ICW for 6+ foot drafts. We draw around 5.5 and have had done some dredging this year in SC. GA is going to be a problem too. You can always go outside, just know there are some really "thin" areas in the ICW that can only be transited at mid to high tide for that draft.
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Old 16-11-2014, 20:05   #68
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

FYI- Regarding the comment about forward scanning sonar... sound travels relatively slowly even through water and the scanning process of scanning sonar requires many many pings at slight changes in angle to draw a useful image. This can take 15 seconds to a minute depending on range/ sweep rate settings. So at least with my unit, while still useful... I must slow to just a crawl coming into an iffy (coral head) shallow cluttered area at night. Otherwise I'm already on it before the image is painted enough to tell whether it is an issue or not. The other issue is my unit can't throw a beam straight ahead. So even thought you can increase the range setting to try to get a peek of what your coming into while further out... this only slows the scan/ imaging process because the ping repetition rate is automatically slowed to allow time for the reflected echo to return before sending the next ping. Also the usefulness is limited because the max up angle is maybe 70-80 degrees... so at depths you are concerned about (less than 6') your not really seeing/ scanning that far ahead. And any change you make in your course doesn't cause the already painted image (on my unit) to also move and the new data/ image continues to be added to one side or the other as it continues with its sweep resulting in now a distorted view of the path until a the sweep is completed and as the next sweep starts it removes the old image line by line as it reprints with fresh scan data.


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Old 16-11-2014, 22:32   #69
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

One thing which I rarely see mentioned, but is worth thinking on. A big consideration about one's draft in this context has to do with anchoring. If there are only a few feet between your keel & the bottom, & a storm/heavy winds come in, all of a sudden that couple of feet of clearance which you had may disappear. And things become, as they say, not fun.

Some skippers are religious about plotting escape bearings, & routes on their charts when they anchor, others not so much. It can make a difference when the shallower spots in an anchorage start developing surf/breaking waves.
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Old 17-11-2014, 02:41   #70
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

[QUOTE=UNCIVILIZED;1679501]One thing which I rarely see mentioned, but is worth thinking on. A big consideration about one's draft in this context has to do with anchoring. If there are only a few feet between your keel & the bottom, & a storm/heavy winds come in, all of a sudden that couple of feet of clearance which you had may disappear. And things become, as they say, not fun.

Some skippers are religious about plotting escape bearings, & routes on their charts when they anchor, others not so much. It can make a difference when the shallower spots in an anchorage start developing surf/breaking waves.[/QUOTE]

Boy, you got that right!

B & B, we have an old Probe, put on the boat in 2003.

Ann
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Old 17-11-2014, 09:22   #71
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

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G'Day Exile,

As you can see from the above post, the FLS that B&B is touting is a bit over the top for most cruisers. We have had some lengthy discussions of the use of more applicable units (Interphase Probe and Echotech (?)) here on CF before, and if you are interested, a bit of searching on the subject will bring up quite a lot of information, including long term experience with the units.


We find ours useful but not able to detect things like floating containers in a seaway.

Jim
Thanks for the clarifications, Jim. The fact that B&B's unit is ac-powered would be a non-starter for me. Although I have a large genset, it mainly powers what I consider non-essential convenience/comfort items, other than the batt. charger that is (for which I have backups). Anything related to navig., comms., or essential boat operation runs on 12v like most boats my size & smaller. Fwd sonar looks useful but not compelling imho, at least at its current stage of development for cruising vessels. With all the other systems I have on board, any additions have to meet a high standard for me. This also goes for large inverters, solar, wind, hydro power, etc. But this could change with more time spent cruising.

As for the question of draft on the ICW, my boat only draws about 5' with the board up, and I've never had a problem b'twn Norfolk & Beaufort, NC. I wouldn't think 6-7' would be a problem through this section if you're careful, read the latest guides, and talk to cruisers at the dock and on the radio. I've only taken the ICW south of Beaufort, NC once and it was 7 years ago. Don't think I'd do it again but I hear things have improved with dredging. My mast hgt. is around 63' and I always check the bridge meters regardless of what the charts or guide books say. There would be some limitations with 6-7' of draft in the Bahamas & Fla. Keys, for e.g., but this can probably be worked around as others have mentioned.

Dan
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Old 17-11-2014, 09:40   #72
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

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As for the question of draft on the ICW, my boat only draws about 5' with the board up, and I've never had a problem b'twn Norfolk & Beaufort, NC. I wouldn't think 6-7' would be a problem through this section if you're careful, read the latest guides, and talk to cruisers at the dock and on the radio. I've only taken the ICW south of Beaufort, NC once and it was 7 years ago. Don't think I'd do it again but I hear things have improved with dredging. My mast hgt. is around 63' and I always check the bridge meters regardless of what the charts or guide books say. There would be some limitations with 6-7' of draft in the Bahamas & Fla. Keys, for e.g., but this can probably be worked around as others have mentioned.
Dan
North Carolina and Florida are pretty good when it turns to accommodating draft. It's South Carolina and Georgia where the states haven't stepped in to dredge as much and there are more challenging areas to be transited only at high tide.
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Old 17-11-2014, 10:45   #73
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

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North Carolina and Florida are pretty good when it turns to accommodating draft. It's South Carolina and Georgia where the states haven't stepped in to dredge as much and there are more challenging areas to be transited only at high tide.
Yes, I also recall the SC & GA portions of the ICW being the worst when I transited in 2007. Sorry to hear that not much has apparently improved since.
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Old 17-11-2014, 11:04   #74
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

Exile, if you stick to well known and charted areas the Probe might well not be worth the effort and money. We have spent lots of time in places not so blessed, and have found the Probe to be a very useful tool for such explorations. Even in well charted areas, the detail available in anchorages is often scanty, and being able to see even a couple of boat lengths ahead takes a lot of stress off of seeking a good spot to drop the hook. We first installed ours in a different boat in 1996. I found it so useful that when we bought this one I installed a Probe while the boat was hauled for survey.

However, Garmin has removed the quandary for you: they bought out Interphase and have stopped making the Probe and its brethren. Perhaps they will eventually come out with a replacement, but at this time it is not available. The Echopilot, from talking to owners, is not even as good a s the Probe, but that is only hearsay. I have never actually used one.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 17-11-2014, 11:39   #75
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Re: What are the disadvantages of a 6'-7" draft?

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Exile, if you stick to well known and charted areas the Probe might well not be worth the effort and money. We have spent lots of time in places not so blessed, and have found the Probe to be a very useful tool for such explorations. Even in well charted areas, the detail available in anchorages is often scanty, and being able to see even a couple of boat lengths ahead takes a lot of stress off of seeking a good spot to drop the hook. We first installed ours in a different boat in 1996. I found it so useful that when we bought this one I installed a Probe while the boat was hauled for survey.

However, Garmin has removed the quandary for you: they bought out Interphase and have stopped making the Probe and its brethren. Perhaps they will eventually come out with a replacement, but at this time it is not available. The Echopilot, from talking to owners, is not even as good a s the Probe, but that is only hearsay. I have never actually used one.

Cheers,

Jim
Yes, a classic case of buying a company that has technology you need and doing nothing with it.

As Jim uses it and the most important way we use it, you don't need it to cover a great distance as you're moving slowly, if at all, and trying to gauge the immediate area. We've found a lot of approaches to marinas where it's given us a picture of things that was very useful. We don't anchor that much but I recall one night we did, near Glacier Bay. that in the space of a couple of hundred yards, depth goes from 130+' to 20-25' to 7-12'. Being able to see exactly where that was occurring was very useful.

The important thing about what Jim just discussed and what we're talking about is it doesn't require the best sonar on the market, but just a good unit. We saw a demo of Simrad's Forward Scan which looked good but we haven't seen it in actual operating conditions.
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