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Old 14-04-2016, 11:44   #91
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Re: We are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

According to BoatUS, 52% of all boat fires are electrical

Below is a quote from the same article
Stoves. The incidence of fires due to stoves has decreased with the gradual replacement of alcohol stoves with propane stoves and electric ranges. Two percent of fires were caused by stoves, more than half resulting from problems with lighting alcohol stoves. Given how few alcohol stoves there are on boats these days, they are significantly more dangerous than those that use other fuel sources. If you still have an alcohol stove on board, you may want to consider upgrading. Most people agree that they don't heat very well, anyway.
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Old 14-04-2016, 11:48   #92
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Re: we are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

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Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
In my youth propane was still quite popular as a cooking fuel in the village I lived in. I remember at least three cases of houses blowing up because of propane leak. There is a reason why it is actually not permitted to store propane and butane bottles indoors...
Over here we have buildings/villas/storefronts being destroyed regularly. Most are electrical fires and quite often LP gas explosions. The gas explosions are usually at the restaurants. Everyone has LP bottles inside their homes and stores. But there is true "3rd world" technology and way of thinking over here.
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Old 14-04-2016, 11:58   #93
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Re: We are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

Well, I don't think we need boatus to tell us electrical fires are the cause of most fires on boats, but electricity doesn't explode.

If I were to guess, I would think most of those fires are due to shore power connections working loose and overheating while the owners are away, not from electrical cooking appliances.

Yes, obsolete pressurised alcohol stoves are obsolete. I am going to assume anybody who makes this kind of comment about alcohol stoves has never lit a modern whick style alcohol stove, because you'd have to be pretty bad at operating a barbecue lighter to burn your boat down lighting one.

I'm not saying buy alcohol stoves, I just said that's what I have, mine is less than 12 months old.

I think electric cooking would be better than alcohol or propane provided you could produce the power.

I guess propane is good for Surveyors, though, since they get to cash in every time somebody installs a new system.

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Old 14-04-2016, 12:31   #94
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Re: We are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

For the propane fearful, take a look at this article:

Crash Test Boat - Gas explosion

Yachting Monthly purposely exploded a boat using LPG to see what would happen. In their first attempt, using an RN Fleet Explosives team they failed to blow up the boat. That was with a propane line wide open leading into the interior of the boat. They said there was too much ventilation through the cabin.

In order to get their explosion they had to move the tanks inside the cabin, turn them upside down and dump liquid propane into the cabin, and then set things off.

Not saying it can't happen, it does. And when it does it is spectacular. But it isn't really all that common. In the UK about one incident per year. The statistics say you are at least 50 times more likely to be involved in an electrical fire on your boat than a propane/fire explosion. Now to find the incidence of serious harm from both of those, then we can have a real conversation.
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Old 14-04-2016, 12:44   #95
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Re: We are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

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Originally Posted by Ungvar View Post
Well, I don't think we need boatus to tell us electrical fires are the cause of most fires on boats.

If I were to guess.

I am going to assume anybody who makes this kind of comment about alcohol stoves has never lit a modern whick style alcohol stove.

I guess propane is good for Surveyors, though, since they get to cash in every time somebody installs a new system.
1 . Tell it to Boat US

2. No need to guess, I provided a link to the stats.

3. Tell it to BoatUS

4. Please tell me how to cash in on that.
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Old 14-04-2016, 12:45   #96
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Re: We are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

I'm curious if the propane is always safe crowd, especially the Marine professionals have seen propane cookers on commercial vessels?

Not in Canada, propane is restricted for transport and use on commercial vessels under the Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act.

Because commercial vessels see more use then pleasure craft, their risk exposure is higher, they therefore have higher legislated safety standards then pleasure craft. For that reason, you are only likely to ever see electric or diesel cooking appliances on commercial vessels.

I agree with the general attitude, that when proper precautions are taken and prudent processes are in place propane can be used safely on pleasure craft, absolutely, I myself have a propane BBQ on board.

The belief that propane is as safe as or safer than diesel or electric cooking is a questionable stance, in my opinion.

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Old 14-04-2016, 12:58   #97
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Re: We are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
For the propane fearful, take a look at this article:

Crash Test Boat - Gas explosion

Yachting Monthly purposely exploded a boat using LPG to see what would happen. In their first attempt, using an RN Fleet Explosives team they failed to blow up the boat. That was with a propane line wide open leading into the interior of the boat. They said there was too much ventilation through the cabin.

In order to get their explosion they had to move the tanks inside the cabin, turn them upside down and dump liquid propane into the cabin, and then set things off.

Not saying it can't happen, it does. And when it does it is spectacular. But it isn't really all that common. In the UK about one incident per year. The statistics say you are at least 50 times more likely to be involved in an electrical fire on your boat than a propane/fire explosion. Now to find the incidence of serious harm from both of those, then we can have a real conversation.
Five gas explosions on boats in the UK last year, 7 killed.

The likelihood of death or serious injury from an explosion is probably 100's of times greater, than with an ordinary fire.

Gas explosions are one of the two or three most significant causes of death or serious injury on a boat.

It's a very serious risk, which needs careful management if you decide to take it, as most of us do.
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Old 14-04-2016, 13:26   #98
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Re: We are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

Just curious; if a boat catches fire and all aboard abandon ship but don't make it to land, is the statistic death by drowning, or death by fire?

I'd have to agree with the poster about the Origo style stoves. I don't think I am even dumb enough to start a fire with one of those.

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Old 14-04-2016, 13:27   #99
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Re: We are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

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Five gas explosions on boats in the UK last year, 7 killed.

The likelihood of death or serious injury from an explosion is probably 100's of times greater, than with an ordinary fire.

Gas explosions are one of the two or three most significant causes of death or serious injury on a boat.

It's a very serious risk, which needs careful management if you decide to take it, as most of us do.
Is that propane? Could that number also be gasoline explosions?
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Old 14-04-2016, 14:03   #100
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Re: We are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

Well the engine on a sailboat is a auxiliary engine, not a main engine.
Get a STEYR MOTORS with integrated flywheel generator, while charging or supplying power its loaded enough.
Pretty cool monoblock diesel that wont disintegrate as wont most other good marine engines in the cruising sailboat size, emphasis on good.
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Old 14-04-2016, 14:24   #101
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Re: We are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

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Is that propane? Could that number also be gasoline explosions?
As I understand LPG (mostly butane -- Calor gas). I didn't find all five of them, but I did find four and posted the stories in another thread.

I didn't hear of any gasoline explosions last year. I think there are fewer inboard, petrol powered boats in the UK than in other places like the U.S.

Petrol vapor explosions are also a significant danger, and avoiding this risk is one reason why people prefer diesels.

On the Eastern Front in WWII, the Germans regretted that their tanks were petrol powered, as many Reichswehr tankers died horrible deaths due to fires and exploding fuel tanks. The Soviet T34's were diesel powered and rarely burned.
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Old 14-04-2016, 14:56   #102
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Re: We are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

I find the various risks interesting. I can't find a single LPG explosion death on a boat in the US in 2014 or 2015. Could be I'm not looking in the right places, but I've been through Coast Guard data, news, and insurance data. I actually believe it has happened, but not finding it.

I can however, find at least three deaths in the US, in 2015, on boats, from carbon monoxide poisoning related to leaking engine (not specific as to petrol or diesel and propulsion vs. generator) exhaust.

And then there's this:

British businessman dies after being electrocuted on boat in Turkey | Latest News | Breaking UK News & World News Headlines | Daily Star

There are risks with pretty much any energy source, and understanding them and mitigating them are what is required to operate safely.
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Old 14-04-2016, 15:23   #103
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Re: We are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

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I'm curious if the propane is always safe crowd,
Have not seen anyone say propane is always safe, which post was that ?
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Old 14-04-2016, 15:26   #104
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Re: We are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

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Gas explosions are one of the two or three most significant causes of death or serious injury on a boat.
Please support that with a link to stats because it contradicts BoatUS or USCG stats. Perhaps it is different in the UK
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Old 14-04-2016, 15:41   #105
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Re: We are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

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Please support that with a link to stats because it contradicts BoatUS or USCG stats. Perhaps it is different in the UK
My source is a senior RNLI officer of my acquaintance, who stated that in 2015 gas explosions was the leading cause of yachting deaths in the UK, whereas it's usually 2d or 3rd. Drowning is normally #1. He's a proponent of banning propane on yachts. He considers the risks to be completely out of proportion to the narrow function for which it's used. I don't agree, but it is a widely held among SAR professionals.

He was -- and I am -- talking about yachting, cruising, that is, boating in the sea in a vessel you can spend the night on.

The Boat US and USCG statistics include all kinds of boating, and as we all know 90% of boats in the U.S., if not more, are small outboard motor boats used on lakes and inland water. No gas explosion possible, obvious, so what happens on such vessels is irrelevant to this discussion.
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