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Old 21-01-2009, 20:34   #31
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Im getting to agreable.
Yep reduce the consumption thats where the money is. I still think we can develope a battery that has deeper discharges faster recharge and is more robust then the curent old lead acic stuff the elite fleet is still choosing to run on. Our current pipeline of ideas seems flawed. so until then the electric cooker stays in the van.
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Old 22-01-2009, 10:55   #32
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thanks for the advice folks.
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Old 21-08-2015, 06:50   #33
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Re: we are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

Use natural Gas for stove instead of propane. (Its safer). For fridge use flexible solar batteries 2 x 40 W - parallel.
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Old 21-08-2015, 08:32   #34
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Re: we are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

CNG is much safer than LPG partly because it's nearly impossible to find in most of the cruising world lol.
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Old 21-08-2015, 09:38   #35
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Re: we are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

Its basic thermodynamics-your genset is less than 30% efficient at converting its fuel energy into electricity. If you heat a pot of water on an electric cooktop you will use 3 times as much fuel as if you used the fuel in a diesel stove.

Not to mention the noise--we were told that the GB would have to be converted to propane cooking if it were to be sold in the Pacific Northwest, because boaters there really don't tolerate gensets running in the anchorages at dinnertime.
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Old 21-08-2015, 10:23   #36
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Re: we are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

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Its basic thermodynamics-your genset is less than 30% efficient at converting its fuel energy into electricity. If you heat a pot of water on an electric cooktop you will use 3 times as much fuel as if you used the fuel in a diesel stove.

Not to mention the noise--we were told that the GB would have to be converted to propane cooking if it were to be sold in the Pacific Northwest, because boaters there really don't tolerate gensets running in the anchorages at dinnertime.
Not everybody have mainly genset power nor there's need to run it allways for cooking nor are other stowes as energy efficient as you suggest. Induction cooking itself is around 72% efficient when burning fuel as gas or diesel stowes are around 40% efficient..
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Old 21-08-2015, 11:16   #37
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Re: we are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

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Its basic thermodynamics-your genset is less than 30% efficient at converting its fuel energy into electricity. If you heat a pot of water on an electric cooktop you will use 3 times as much fuel as if you used the fuel in a diesel stove.

Not to mention the noise--we were told that the GB would have to be converted to propane cooking if it were to be sold in the Pacific Northwest, because boaters there really don't tolerate gensets running in the anchorages at dinnertime.

Yes - and thank you for not running your genset at dinnertime - here in the PNW, or elsewhere. One thing that can absolutely ruin a nice anchorage is a boat that pulls up and then runs its genset. Some bigger yachts will run their genset 24/7. A pox on them!
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Old 13-04-2016, 02:09   #38
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Re: we are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

This is a good thread and it's amazing that it's going on for 6 years now. But now in 2016 it's clear that if you can mount sufficient solar panels (1kw or more) then a boat can be completely off-grid and self sufficient even without the genset. Induction cookers are amazing and digital inverter refrigerators are highly efficient. Consider how much of your time you cook with a small propane or charcoal BBQ on your aft deck anyway. Perhaps all that's needed is a small 2-3 kw generator, or even one belted off the main engine with a clutch, for those times when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow.
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Old 13-04-2016, 03:00   #39
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Re: we are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

I grew up with diesel stoves. For boats in a cool climate, it's the only way to go. This boat came with a electric stove. I used more diesel in an hour of cooking on the electric/generator than all day with the diesel stove. I don't anchor with other boats, but don't like the generator noise either.
I've seen too many boats burn or explode to use gas.
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Old 13-04-2016, 03:32   #40
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Re: we are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

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Its basic thermodynamics-your genset is less than 30% efficient at converting its fuel energy into electricity. If you heat a pot of water on an electric cooktop you will use 3 times as much fuel as if you used the fuel in a diesel stove.

Not to mention the noise--we were told that the GB would have to be converted to propane cooking if it were to be sold in the Pacific Northwest, because boaters there really don't tolerate gensets running in the anchorages at dinnertime.
The efficiency of electric cooking is much higher than this, and can be equal to or better than a diesel stove depending on the cooker. Induction puts a larger proportion of the heat into the water than diesel or gas, and is instant on and off -- no fuel used getting and keeping it burning.

And an electric kettle puts 100% of the energy into the water, so even more efficient than induction.

Furthermore, depending on how you manage your loads, the electrical power for cooking might even be free or nearly free -- as you're running the generator anyway to charge batts.



And concerning running the genset and disturbing others. If you have a high speed one (3000 or 3600 RPM), not in a sound enclosure, and/or without a water separator in the exhaust, then yes.

But if you have a well-installed low speed heavy duty one, well isolated, with a water separator, and not too big, then you won't disturb anyone. In fact you generally can't even tell that such a generator is running from outside the boat. Mine is double isolated -- inside a sound enclosure and in turn inside a soundproof lead foil lined engine room. Inside the boat, it's quieter than a dishwasher, and from outside it's totally inaudible. It's a real risk to forget that it's running and forget to shut it down.


My father's boat had a lot of solar and no generator and it was wonderful. This is best of all if you have space to put the panels and don't mind the windage, and if you have lead-acid batteries which love a long slow charge.

With LiFePo, however, to the extent any of us ever changes over to that, a largish generator is the most efficient way to charge.


In any case, electric cooking is the way to go on a cruising boat IMHO. No noxious gasses or combustion products or water vapor or unwanted heat into the boat interior, none of the dangers of gas, no need to find, supply and carry another fuel, no entirely separate and safety critical system to maintain. I don't like cooking with it as much as with gas, but as far as I'm concerned that's a small price to pay for all of the benefits.
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Old 13-04-2016, 12:25   #41
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Re: we are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

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I still think we can develope a battery that has deeper discharges faster recharge and is more robust then the curent old lead acic stuff the elite fleet is still choosing to run on.
Actually if you look at the specs, lifespan based on depth of discharge, etc., you will find that the industrial lead acid batteries (2 volt, 1000 amp solar batteries) are superior to the 12v AGMs and the price is half. The drawback is having to maintain them, plus weight if that is a concern.
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Old 13-04-2016, 13:14   #42
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Re: we are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

I think DonR's point is that the generator is only 30% efficient at turning diesel into electricity. So, even if your cooking appliance is 100% efficient at turning electricity into useful cooking heat, your system efficiency is still only 30%. If a diesel cooker is 50% efficient at providing useful cooking heat by direct diesel combustion then it will use less diesel for the same amount of cooking because of the inefficiency at the generator level.

Of course, getting all the efficiency numbers right is the hard part.
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Old 13-04-2016, 19:24   #43
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Re: we are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

Never will forget the engineer who converted his boat to all electric. Of course his generator crapped out on the first long passage and they ended up having to toss a large freezer's contents overboard when they couldn't eat it fast enough. Fortunately they had just enough canned goods to finish the passage though came in weighing less than before the generator quit. No back up cooking source so everything had to be eaten cold. Hope they loved sashimi if they caught any fish. Some cruisers took pity on them and loaned them a single burner kerosene cooker to get to Papeete. Took months to get parts for the electrical system rebuild and the refrigeration once they got there. Wife flew home never to be seen again and boat went up for sale cheap before the husband bailed. Yeah, go for an all electric boat.
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Old 13-04-2016, 21:37   #44
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Re: we are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

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Never will forget the engineer who converted his boat to all electric... Yeah, go for an all electric boat.
Never will forget the tens/dozens/hundreds of boaters who blew themselves up with propane....

... it's called fear tactics - shock value. Not a good way to make a decision or to advise people on whether to go electric or gas or diesel or kerosene or rubbing two sticks together.

The OP started a great thread and hopefully he and I and roverhi and others are gaining some good, objective information to draw conclusions from.
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Old 13-04-2016, 22:00   #45
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Re: we are we seeing electric stove tops on blue water cruisers?

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I think an electric cooker could make sense on a Trawler type boat. Many trawlers have two generators, one smaller one and one larger one. That way you could have an electric oven as well as a cook top and air conditioning and hair dryers and toasters and electric coffee makers and electric hot water heaters and washing machines and cloths dryers and...

Nordhavn recommend an AC type boat instead of a DC type. They feel that there is less maintenance in an AC boat. I guess it's all those regular household kitchen appliances.
===

That's exactly right in my experience. There is a lot to be said for having a single fuel boat but you really need the redundancy of a second generator to get the full benefit. Our previous boat only had one generator and when (not if) it failed, it was a major issue that would require us to immediately go to a marina until it was repaired. An inverter coupled with a large alternator can alleviate this to a certain extent but you really don't want to be running your main engine(s) just for cooking.
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