Washing Clothes Aboard

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Pblais

We really don't need to know all of them. Things in moderation work (except wine). So how is it on wine stains? I've found peroxide and Dawn dish washing liquid works even on colors if you are fast. Saved a great shirt that way. Even works the day after in case your speed has degraded from the process of acquiring the stain - could happen!

This is the stuff - works like magic on wine stains. They disappear instantly.

Wine-Out: Wine Cave Inc.

Mark

[pete33458]

Originally Posted by Reality Check

sorry, but I think you may be confusing Volume with Strength or MOL for things like NH3. Human urine is not "full" of NH3 but does have some. A Gallon of pure Ammonia.... high MOL would far out-way the effects of Human urine NH3 by a factor well over 10,000 if I recall my chemistry at all.

Not at all. Divide 5 billion humans by a liter per day (5 billion liters of urine) and then by your dilution factor (10,000, which is actually too high, but it doesn't matter) to get about 40,000 liters per day. Then multiply times all species that produce urine. Then figure out how many boats are on the water. There's no way, just no day, it can compare.

[cosmosmariner]

Glad you guys are interested in this but lets stay focused on the topic.

We are talking about using a measured amount of ammonia to interact with (wash) organics (bacteria, virus, amino acids) out of clothing. After the ammonia has interacted chemically with the organics (something to do with all those nice extra hydrogen atoms) the ammonia is not 'pure ammonia' any longer and doesn't have the 'strength' to react with the organics in the water the boat is floating in. If you try to use the first wash water to do a second load the clothes don't come clean because the ammonia isn't there like it was in the first load (trust me on this practical effect, I tried it). Therefore it appears to me to be a safe way to wash moderately dirty clothes and save rinsing, i.e. water,at the same time.

Thanks for playing, it's been fun!

[cosmosmariner]

Well the chemists didn't reply so I did a little Googling and found the following info I hope it gives some comfort about washing with ammonia:

Un-ionized ammonia (NH3) is a colorless gas at standard temperature and pressure. A pungent odor is detectable at levels above 50 ppm (NRC, 1979). Ammonia is very soluble in water at low (acidic) pH.

Ammonia levels in zero-salinity surface water increase with increasing pH and temperature .... At low pH and temperature, ammonia combines with water to produce an ammonium ion (NH4+) and a hydroxide ion (OH-). The ammonium ion is non-toxic and not of concern to organisms. Above a pH of 9, un-ionized ammonia is the predominant species (Morgan et al., 1981). The un-ionized ammonia (NH3) can cross cell membranes more readily at higher pH values.

Ammonia remains in the atmosphere only 5 - 10 days before being deposited or chemically altered. The fate of atmospheric ammonia is largely a function of global location and weather conditions. If ammonia is introduced into a pristine water system (neutral pH or slightly less), it is readily converted to nitrate by nitrification and becomes harmless to aquatic life (NRC, 1979). (For more information, refer to nitrification in the nitrate-nitrite section.)

Ammonia often serves as the primary or secondary source of nitrogen for plant life. While some plants prefer ammonia to other forms of nitrogen, other plants prefer nitrate but can assimilate gaseous ammonia if necessary (NRC, 1979).

[mesquaukee]

Did some reading of abstracts on the effect of ammonia on Atlantic salmon postsmolts (0.6-0.7 kg). Sublethal effects and safe levels of ammonia in seawater for Atlantic salmon postsmolts (Salmo salar L.). | Fivelstad, S., Schwarz, J., Strmsnes, H., Olsen, A. B. | Aquacultural Engineering |
It seems as if there wasn't much of an effect on them.
Using 1-2 oz of household ammonia (10%) would only raise the concentration of 20 gal. of water where they saw a non-lethal change in the fish. In 100 gal. there wasn't any significant change.
1 to 2 oz of household ammonia would double the concentation of ammonia in 4,000 to 5,000 gal of seawater.

It took a bit of time to do the math. This is the worst case senario assuming none of the ammonia was used up, etc. I think it's safe

But then there is the coral. Who knows? Maybe it will like it.

[mesquaukee]

Oops, made a mistake/
Never ever try to watch TV and do some math at the same time.

The above should read;
Using 1-2 oz of household ammonia (10%) would only raise the concentration of 135-500 gal. of water where they saw a non-lethal change in the fish. In 700-1500 gal. there wasn't any significant change.
&
1 to 2 oz of household ammonia would double the concentation of ammonia in 6,000 to 35,000 gal of seawater