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Old 08-07-2014, 01:10   #31
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Re: Unrealistic expectations?

The owner bought the boat in 2003. The survey was good from then. Therefore If the boat has been maintained to a good standard it should give a small indication to condition now? (Indication) (If she's been maintained properly that is). Otherwise I wouldn't even get a pre-survey done and would walk away? PS On my first thread I mentioned I've budgeted for the anti-foul and paint.

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
You do realize that it is 2014? Right?

A 2003 survey is meaningless. If you don't mind sharing what are some of the jobs listed? You may be able to provide the labor but let's say one job is anti-foul.

You have to haul out and buy the paint rollers etc. Probably 5 boat bucks.
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:09   #32
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Re: Unrealistic expectations?

I met some guys from canada who were on a 40ft steel boat they got for $3000. It was in good shape, but they only had 2 sails.

First I would make sure the hull is in good shape. Try to get the boat for less than they are asking, which should be possible. Then you can re-rig with galvanized wire and turnbuckles, and do a bottom job all for under $1000. At this point should be good to go, you can spend remaining money on new lines, ground tackle and extra sails. If there is an engine remove it, it's only going to waste time and cause you to go over budget. Finally, build a wood stove (possibly out of an empty gas bottle) so you can roast, bake, grill, boil etc with no cost, and never have any mosquitoes bothering you.

Is it unrealistic? no. Would you be better off with something under 30ft? I think so.. it will save you a lot of trouble.
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:43   #33
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Re: Unrealistic expectations?

The onwer of the boat has already dropped the price from 12,500 to 7500 so I don't think there's any room for getting it cheaper. It comes with spare sails and a storm sail which are all in good shape. He sailed for the boat for 9 years in the Caribbean but has since returned to the UK.

How would you get the bottom job done for less than $1000? I was going to do it myself but it seems the paint removal is expensive as it's hazardous and needs to be disposed of appropriately. The TR paint I looked as worked out at about $450-$600 on it's own? Can you give me some more details please?

As for the 30ft boat it's too small for me. I sailed the atlantic on a 47ft and that was OK. I've been on sub 30ft boats and I need more room than that. Diving gear, Seafishing and generallly moving around I like my space and room to hoard stuff.

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
I met some guys from canada who were on a 40ft steel boat they got for $3000. It was in good shape, but they only had 2 sails.

First I would make sure the hull is in good shape. Try to get the boat for less than they are asking, which should be possible. Then you can re-rig with galvanized wire and turnbuckles, and do a bottom job all for under $1000. At this point should be good to go, you can spend remaining money on new lines, ground tackle and extra sails. If there is an engine remove it, it's only going to waste time and cause you to go over budget. Finally, build a wood stove (possibly out of an empty gas bottle) so you can roast, bake, grill, boil etc with no cost, and never have any mosquitoes bothering you.

Is it unrealistic? no. Would you be better off with something under 30ft? I think so.. it will save you a lot of trouble.
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Old 08-07-2014, 05:31   #34
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Re: Unrealistic expectations?

When people talk about $$ and buying boats, they sometimes say you need perhaps 20% of the purchase price for contingencies after the purchase. This unfortunately applies when the purchase price is upwards or over 100k.

5k can be eaten up with one yard bill, if you break down somewhere and cannot do the work yourself.

A more realistic plan might be to buy a cheap boat, less then 5k, on the east coast of the US, and then take your first cruising steps there. You have more places to anchor cheaply, no check-in costs (if you are a us citizen) and parts are cheaper when you need them (and you will). If you need to work a bit to raise more $$$, that is possible too.

An un-maintained 38 foot steel boat in a different part of the world - well, that is statistically a recipe for disaster.

Chris

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Old 08-07-2014, 05:56   #35
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Re: Unrealistic expectations?

Hi Chris, there are more alarm bells ringing in my ears than the boat, sailing and living the dream.

As ex RNLI lifeboat crew going out in all weathers saving people and their vessels (where appropriate), I would firstly say without a shadow of a doubt make shore you safety equipment is the best you can afford and in A1 working order.

Secondly you have a plan which is excellent however I think you should approach it as a business. That's not to say sail and charter work is the idea I am talking about your personal plan to sail the Caribbean for a year.

You need an income, for fuel, food and the odd mooring fees.

The expenses as above speak for themselves including repairs and maintenance and the +25% to any budget you think you have.

You are a sparky ad every boat has electric in one fashion or another.
Try to get on a refrigeration course as I hear there is a shortage of reliable cost effective contractors for this.

It's also another iron in the fire.

So spend a year working (permits etc required) self employed while underpinning your background knowledge and creating a solid foundation for what I am sure will be years of pleasure.

With this in mind I am sure over time you will be able to answer your own questions in your original post.

Good luck with everything.


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Old 08-07-2014, 06:56   #36
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pirate Re: Unrealistic expectations?

Part of me says go for it..
Look at it as a holiday with a possible bonus at the end..
I flew from the UK to buy a Cheoy Lee with $30,000 round my stomach.. that was St Martin.. turned out to be a horror boat.. I had a return ticket and a couple of weeks so I hung out at the Soggy Dollar and other cruiser spots around the Island.. popped over to Antigua for 4 days to check things out.. on my second last night a little Frenchman popped up beside me and said "I will say this only once.. You want to buy a Beneteau 321.."
Looked at her next morning.. cancelled my flight and booked a cheap room in Phillipsburg.. 8 weeks later I took possession.
Its a win win situation really.. if its crap you've had a nice holiday, got a feel for the island life (if you've not already), reality will help clarify the dream.. basic 3rd world is very much a Love it-Hate it thing.. no middle road.. and a thick skin..
Living/eating amongst the locals and making friends still has that "Nice bloke but.. he's gone native poor chap.." thing.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:37   #37
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Re: Unrealistic expectations?

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Originally Posted by Chris84 View Post
The onwer of the boat has already dropped the price from 12,500 to 7500 s

SNIP
Always a bad sign.
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Old 08-07-2014, 08:00   #38
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Re: Unrealistic expectations?

Even if the boat is a very good buy, I am afraid that your pre and post-purchase budget is woefully inadequate.

Pre-purchase:

1. The cost of a flight to (and from?) Grenada plus accomodation until the survey is complete and the deal closes will eat up a portion of your 5K. What if you choose not to close the deal? Do you want to sell-off/store your belongings at home prior to departure, or are you better off budgeting for a return trip to make those arrangements after the deal closes?

2. Don't even think of purchasing an older steel boat without a proper survey where the thickness of the remaining hull plating is determined. I assume that the equipment is available in Grenada, but as to the cost??????

3. You speak of scuba gear etc., have you factored in the cost of shipping that (and your other gear) to Grenada? What about the cost of shipping tools? Yes, you can do a great deal of work yourself, but you will need tools (including power tools). Do you really want to ship those prior to closing the deal?

Post-purchase expenses:

4. Dont' expect to get by with a new coat or two of anti-fouling on the underbody. Even if the plating is still adequate, it will likely need to be sandblasted and then epoxy primed first.

5. Ditto for preparing and painting the inside of the hull. Keep in mind that on the steel boat, the areas that you cannot see are the ones most likely to suffer from corrosion. To do an adequate job will likely require removal and replacement of a great deal of the interior joinerwork/ceilings/headliner.

6. How about yard costs and cost of hauling out, mast removal, re-stepping, etc.?
Have you checked about the costs at the marina where it is located?

All of the above is to say nothing, of course, of any plating that will need replacement (again, often requiring removal of interior joinerwork etc.). I would be shocked if it is not in need of at least some 'patches'. This is to say nothing of the cost to replace any thru-hulls/ball valves and standing rigging that are safety-related issues. This, of course, also does not include the cost to replace any running rigging, deck harware, anchor rodes (or even to regalvanize the same), let alone electrical, plumbing, diesel, transmission, stuffing box, tank, diesel filter issues, etc., etc. that may eixst or arise.

Even if the boat has been relatively well maintained (a big if), I cannot see how you could get her ready to spend a few years aboard for anything less than (and likely much more than) your entire budget.

Keep the dream alive, but save a bit more money. This won't be the only opportunity to come your way.


Brad
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Old 08-07-2014, 08:25   #39
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Re: Unrealistic expectations?

Apart from the rest which I agree with whole heartedly. The last sentence stands out the most.

Don't let your heart rule your wallet.

:-)


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Old 08-07-2014, 08:31   #40
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Re: Unrealistic expectations?

A word of caution about unbelievable boar deals in the Caribbean, and this was an observation while I was sailing down there.

There are an awful lot of broken dreams for sell. And those broken dreams are generally in a state of disrepair. Additionally, there are boats that have been the victims of mishap, insurance companies have almost given a damaged boat to a local who has done cosmetic repairers. Including putty and paint to hide a crack in the hull.

Always remember: If it sounds to good to be true, it is.to good to be true
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Old 08-07-2014, 08:38   #41
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Re: Unrealistic expectations?

But a main dealer in a reputable port would surely have a pre-survey done so they could sell with confidence.

I recognise that it's the buyers responsibility to ensure all is good though.


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Old 08-07-2014, 08:43   #42
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Re: Unrealistic expectations?

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Wait, wait, wait.

Didn't this guy just have a professional stripper offer to join him as crew ? I mean maybe he's going to get stranded on an uncharted desert isle ?
sure, but if she brings her pole with her i'll bet that $5000 will go from his pocket to her panties within a week.

on the other hand, ask her for some pictures...
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Old 08-07-2014, 08:48   #43
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Re: Unrealistic expectations?

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unbelievable boar deals in the Caribbean
Now there's a wild pig in the mix ?

Coconuts, strippers, wild pigs, tropical island. I mean. I don't know what to say.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:59   #44
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Re: Unrealistic expectations?

Even if the boat is a very good buy, I am afraid that your pre and post-purchase budget is woefully inadequate.

Pre-purchase:

1. The cost of a flight to (and from?) Grenada plus accomodation until the survey is complete and the deal closes will eat up a portion of your 5K. What if you choose not to close the deal? Do you want to sell-off/store your belongings at home prior to departure, or are you better off budgeting for a return trip to make those arrangements after the deal closes?

I have budgeted for purchase price plus return flight and haul out, sandblasting and anti fouling in my initial purchase price. Pre Survey Included at $350. 9500

2. Don't even think of purchasing an older steel boat without a proper survey where the thickness of the remaining hull plating is determined. I assume that the equipment is available in Grenada, but as to the cost??????

Already asked the owner these questions but will have a pre-survey done before survey so not to waste time or money.

3. You speak of scuba gear etc., have you factored in the cost of shipping that (and your other gear) to Grenada? What about the cost of shipping tools? Yes, you can do a great deal of work yourself, but you will need tools (including power tools). Do you really want to ship those prior to closing the deal?

I have a home in the UK a very nice home and a family business to come back to if things don't work out. I'm very privileged in that regard and will keep most of my belongings at home in the UK.

Post-purchase expenses:

4. Dont' expect to get by with a new coat or two of anti-fouling on the underbody. Even if the plating is still adequate, it will likely need to be sandblasted and then epoxy primed first.

As per question 1. I have already looked into this in great detail and budgeted for it.

5. Ditto for preparing and painting the inside of the hull. Keep in mind that on the steel boat, the areas that you cannot see are the ones most likely to suffer from corrosion. To do an adequate job will likely require removal and replacement of a great deal of the interior joinerwork/ceilings/headliner.

I will ask the surveyor for whom has used before in the past to carefully look for rust in the places that are hard to get into.

6. How about yard costs and cost of hauling out, mast removal, re-stepping, etc.?
Have you checked about the costs at the marina where it is located?

The boat isn't in a Marina but is being looked after. Marina fees are Zero. One of my close friends is Grenadan and has family out there. One of his friends apparently runs a local marina so hopefully will be relatively cheap.

All of the above is to say nothing, of course, of any plating that will need replacement (again, often requiring removal of interior joinerwork etc.). I would be shocked if it is not in need of at least some 'patches'. This is to say nothing of the cost to replace any thru-hulls/ball valves and standing rigging that are safety-related issues. This, of course, also does not include the cost to replace any running rigging, deck harware, anchor rodes (or even to regalvanize the same), let alone electrical, plumbing, diesel, transmission, stuffing box, tank, diesel filter issues, etc., etc. that may eixst or arise.

Even if the boat has been relatively well maintained (a big if), I cannot see how you could get her ready to spend a few years aboard for anything less than (and likely much more than) your entire budget.

I only planned on sailing her for a year 18 months absolute max.
Keep the dream alive, but save a bit more money. This won't be the only opportunity to come your way.

Thanks for taking the time to write the questions out. I'm trying to read between the lines at the moment and absorb anything that supports how my dream.

Brad
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Old 08-07-2014, 10:08   #45
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Re: Unrealistic expectations?

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...you can re-rig with galvanized wire and turnbuckles, and do a bottom job all for under $1000. At this point should be good to go...
If there is an engine remove it, it's only going to waste time and cause you to go over budget. Finally, build a wood stove (possibly out of an empty gas bottle)...
So sad.
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