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Old 22-07-2016, 17:56   #31
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

Some really great and thoughtful replies guys & gals, thank you very much! So to answer/respond to a few of the excellent questions and insight:

1) Yes I absolutely could be a much better communicator in the relationship department. 99.975% guilty.
2) Money is definitely not what is important to me or else I would have stayed banking more money at my gig. I'm fortunate enough to realize that my two most valuable resources are my health and my time. Slaving away to make more money just to buy more things I don't need seems like a very poor use of my time.
3) House, yes I could lower the price and have it sold tomorrow, no need to hash this further I understand my particular market very well.
4) Yes, my GF is being smart and cautious & I respect that, she took a second job as a waitress and works 6 nights a week. It sucks for me but I'm supportive because she is trying to move forward.
5) She was not truthful with me about her financial situation, then proceed to make a series of poor choices going against my advice once she came clean. Again no need to go into more detail...but my issue is with her judgment, not her character. I do trust her implicitly.
6) You guys are spot on that if/when we decide to go we go together and there is no "asking me for $20". That's crazy, we have our kitty of money and we are going to be out living life to the fullest not worried about petty b.s. like that.
7) Cold feet...do I have them. Well not so much cold feet as it is a nervous excitement. Since retiring I've traveled around the world quite a bit. The happiest moments I've had is leaving on a journey that I don't have a timeline for and do not know how it will go...I just go and do it. Honestly it is euphoric to me & that is what has me excited about the future.

Anyway I hope everyone is having a beautiful evening!
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Old 22-07-2016, 18:29   #32
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

Great! Then you have all those nasties sorted out! Awesome! Keep us updated on your wonderful adventures. Include a link to blog or youtube if you go that route, we love to follow each others adventures.

Wish you best of luck and best of life!
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Old 22-07-2016, 20:49   #33
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

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Originally Posted by ol1970 View Post

Here are the problems. Home on the market now since late April, averaging over 2 showings a week...tons of interest, but only one lowball offer. Its a very nice somewhat unique home, and the feedback is not pricing, its just that the homes in the 7 figures just are not selling...none. So its a bit of a soft market in the high end, but going like gangbusters in the more moderately priced homes. On the bright side it has literally been the best summer we have ever had here in Michigan by a wide margin. I've been boating every day as my home is on the water, so from that standpoint its been good.


It appears you are still living in the house. That would be a major reason that it hasn't sold yet.
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Old 22-07-2016, 22:56   #34
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

First and foremost, you have a relationship problem. I wouldn't do anything until you figure this out. The two of you crammed into a 40' boat 24/7 for months on end will not make a bad relationship better.
- If this is a serious relationship you expect or hope to be permanent, it is very much in your interest to sort out the financials and be honestly on the same page. That doesn't mean you get to dictate the terms because you make more money. If it were me, I would sit down and have a serious heart to heart and not move on until you both come to agreement and she demonstrates she is following it (she has the right to expect the same of you by the way). This may include sharing your financials and credit reports. It sounds harsh but if you are really ready to share the rest of your life with her, you should be willing to share all your financial information as should she.
- If this is just a casual relationship and you are essentially paying for companionship, make it clear she stays until she's not fun anymore and make it clear what the financial expectations are (keep in mind if you take her to a foreign country, you may be responsible as the captain for repatriating her if things turn sour). You might phrase that a little more softly but be clear and up front with her.


- If neither of these options work out (maybe she really has no interest in moving on the boat but played along when she thought it wouldn't happen), sounds like you are on your own for a while (keep in mind as a single guy living on a boat, your relationship prospects are pretty rough)
The house sale is simple economics. Unless there is something grossly wrong with the marketing, you are priced too high. I assume the house is clean and in good condition, lawn mowed, bushes trimed, etc...ie: if the yard hasn't been maintained, you may be scaring buyers away before they even get inside.
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Old 22-07-2016, 23:40   #35
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

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I apologize, I have done a poor job explaining myself here. I did not mean to brag as this is an anonymous internet site of which I know no one and most likely never will. The people I've have met in real life out sailing and being in that environment from all walks of life have been top notch and I was hoping that those same like minded people might be on here...and some of them most definitely are. I assure you if you meet me out there I'd be the last person you would suspect has 2 nickels to rub together.

That being said, I only used dollar figures for a sense of perspective. $20k in debt is truly nothing...but when the person tells you they have a healthy savings and $50k year job with zero debt then drops a bombshell on you, then follows it up with poor decisions, you have to take pause. I absolutely have zero issue taking care of my partner moving forward, I live a modest lifestyle and she is not extravagant or a gold digger in the least.

Regarding the home, yep absolutely understand the entire concept of if it hasn't sold it is overpriced. Making deals is what I have done for the last 25 years in commercial and residential real estate and I have a very firm grip on what the value of different properties are. Not sure if this is a good analogy, but I sure would like to buy a slightly used 2015 Oyster 475 for $600,000 but nobody will sell me their for that. There are used ones on the market and I will be damned if the same boats that I looked at a year ago are still on the brokers listing today. Are they all just way overpriced or has the very specific buyer not come along yet? The key to building and maintaining wealth is to always be able to act from a position of strength. Being debt free is a position of strength that allows people to get great deals when others make foolish financial decisions.

Again, I apologize for coming across poorly, I was thinking there might be somebody else who has gone through something similar.

On a brighter note an internet blog post that really helps me when reading some of these responses that people have posted. It applies to everybody and this is not meant as anything other than passing along a good read.

Google search:

Mark Mason "The Subtle Art of not giving a F#%K"... well worth your time

From a woman's point of view.
I always try to paint a picture that is accurate and sometimes find that men try to paint the rosie picture.

They believe because I live a rich lifestyle that maybe I really am wealthy. I explain I am only rich in my simple ways, they don't really understand. When I cannot support their way of life, this is a problem, why? This is not my requirement. I have no problem enjoying it if you can afford it however, not required for me.

I believe you should always be up front and living debt free is a priority to be free.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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Old 23-07-2016, 00:42   #36
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

I'll give you another woman's perspective. Having been married for 34 years, starting out with nothing and building our lives together, my husband and I have a different relationship with each other--and money--than you and the gf can have today.

You're not being honest with yourself, the girlfriend, or us. Money is definitely important to you. Nothing wrong with that, but don't lie about it. You have focused your problems all about the money. You have probably worked hard for the money you've made and the house you are now seeking to sell at top dollar rather than what the market will bear. We did not need to know the scale of the debt, the house price, or any other matters but it was important to you that we know it. That's because it IS important to YOU.

There's nothing wrong with money being important to you, just fess up and be honest about it all around. The gf knows your position almost certainly and while I don't know your situation with her, she probably was feeling like a gerbil on the wheel working an extra job 6 days a week? and trying to get into a situation that she thought you'd find acceptable (no debt etc.) It does say something about either her intelligence or her honesty and self-worth or both, yes, but I do feel that you two may be a matched pair on that honesty front and you shouldn't judge her so harshly. Are you about the same age or a lot older? If you're alot older, you're a foolish fellow to have though that a young woman was with you only for your charming personality and not partially (or majority) for the security that your financial success may provide for her.

If you were to put your money where you mouth is (that is you don't CARE about money) and have a happy cruising life--and if you LOVE this girl (I get the impression you do not) then you'd scale back or entirely change your plans to ones that work for her and you together for a very long time.

That means buy an inexpensive and very small boat--one that she could actually own and maintain without you should something happen to you. Yes, something could happen to you and she's giving up (at pretty much the point in her work life that she should be earning and learning more to improve her employment) the ability to build a nest egg just to go wandering off with you, seemingly with no income plans along the way.

That also means that you need to pay-up if you want to go cruising NOW rather than 3 years from now when her lease is up, she's paid down some debt, your house has finally sold at your high price (or you've decided to be more realistic)...yes, pay up if you want to go cruising NOW at your convenience rather than what reality says your gf and your house sale may need--then you're going to pay a premium to do it by cutting the house price and finding a way to finance the gf's debt/buyout of the lease so she can go with you.

It's a natural thing that if you loved this gf, and you just have to go NOW, you'd just find a way for to finance her debt. If you didn't care about money, in that case of love you'd just be happy that you have the income you have and the ability to do the pay off. That would be giving a lot of yourself to the gf and it certainly isn't to be expected if you don't love or trust the gf.

In any case, if you don't really love her then split up and go find another woman who is financially successful, closer to your age and level of wealth and probably suits your needs better than what you have going now with the gf. Sure, a financially secure woman close to your age that you also find attractive and fun to be around may be hard for you to find especially if you're not the pick of the litter yourself. Further, that savvy woman may have strong opinions about your real estate, financial worth, and may be expected to be treated as an equal much more so than a gf who is less secure about her position. Lying to you doesn't speak to her honesty as much as it does to her feelings about her self-worth.

Thanks for reminding me about how lucky my husband and I are to have married for love while we were young and without a care about money, status, or anything beyond being true to one another and having grand adventures together.
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Old 23-07-2016, 04:03   #37
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

Great job Gadagirl, Ann & others!

Next patient please.
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Old 23-07-2016, 04:03   #38
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

Great job Gadagirl, Ann & others! We do good work here on CF.

Next patient please.
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Old 23-07-2016, 04:11   #39
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by ol1970 View Post
Okay, admittedly this is a little bit of a venting post with a small question at the end. Quick recap, r45, retired, finances in order to fund upcoming adventure, have done all the research on boats, completed all the ASA classes...committed to give this whole cruising thing a go. Plan was/is to sell home here since I don't want the hassle or expense once casting off.

Here are the problems. Home on the market now since late April, averaging over 2 showings a week...tons of interest, but only one lowball offer. Its a very nice somewhat unique home, and the feedback is not pricing, its just that the homes in the 7 figures just are not selling...none. So its a bit of a soft market in the high end, but going like gangbusters in the more moderately priced homes. On the bright side it has literally been the best summer we have ever had here in Michigan by a wide margin. I've been boating every day as my home is on the water, so from that standpoint its been good. Problem 2, girlfriend of 2 years who was/is supposed to join me on the journey. Turns out her finances are not at all what she had alluded to...instead of having a nice income, plenty of savings and stuff generally going great, as we get closer to this being a reality the deeper conversations happen to make sure we are on same page. Well truth comes out when her last job ended abruptly turns out she is $20k in debt and signed up for a 3 year car lease (wtf I know...we talked about this specifically). I am really struggling with this, she is a great person but hasn't been totally truthful it turns out and has made poor financial/life decisions. Having been extremely responsible in my life, just buying her way out of these issues is not a problem, but it doesn't feel right. When we go I'll have a companion I feel and not a partner. I was always footing the entire bill anyway, but hadn't expected that she'd just be leaving behind a bunch of debt and have to ask me for $20 every time she wanted to buy something. I just feel that at 37 this woman should have been upfront and have her act together.

So now here I am, the plan was to start the season in the Caribbean at the end of the year and see how it goes. I'm wondering if I should just go alone and get a boat super simple to single hand, should I wait and let her get her act together and give me more time to wrap things up here? Obviously I understand there is more to every story including this one, but I just need to vent a little bit because I'm bummed out. To further complicate things the company I sold 18 months ago to my partners who thought is was a cash cow is now struggling mightily and I get calls/texts/emails weekly from the key employees who remained asking me to start another company and they'll all jump ship. Ugh, I thought I had the plan to sell off into the sunset all worked out and now I feel the tentacles reaching to drag me back in...

ok rant over, going for a paddle, hope you all have a great weekend!
I hear you
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Old 23-07-2016, 06:12   #40
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

Some really great advice here from the collective team on CF!

LOL, ok I admit money is important to me. It represents freedom though, not the ability to have more stuff. Anyway I understand I'm sort of a minority in the aspect that I have always placed a priority on being financially independent and responsible.

Relationships...not one of them are perfect & I get that, it is sort of about picking your poison as to what's a deal breaker and what is not. I have no issue being the provider I simply do not want to be taken advantage of and know we are working towards a common goal.

Real estate, damn there are some experts here and that is greatly appreciated. For now I'm enjoying the best summer in history here, on the water everyday...so the urgency to fire sale isn't quite there. After contemplating this last night, I am sort of really liking the idea of just putting the home in an executive rental program for a couple years and just forget about it. I was going to purchase a small home in the Caribbean as a home base and for a villa rental, and have made a couple of very "fair" offers by the members standards here and nobody has accepted, so the people with nice places down there are not budging price wise so no real reason for me to right now either.

Boat, admittedly my original thought over the past year was to buy something nice, but over the past couple months I decided on a ready to go used cruiser that is very modest. Like someone pointed out, I don't really know what the hell I'm doing & may have to quit or damage the boat so no need in going in whole hog just yet, if I love it the next boat will be the one I really spec out the way I want to go cruising...if not no harm no foul.

Happy Saturday, hope you all have a great day!
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Old 23-07-2016, 07:15   #41
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

Sounds like you are finding your patience and evolving from a dream to a workable plan. From my perspective (woman's) I think you have a much greater chance of keeping your girlfriend by keeping a small place on terra firma.
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Old 23-07-2016, 08:40   #42
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by ol1970 View Post
Okay, admittedly this is a little bit of a venting post with a small question at the end. Quick recap, r45, retired, finances in order to fund upcoming adventure, have done all the research on boats, completed all the ASA classes...committed to give this whole cruising thing a go. Plan was/is to sell home here since I don't want the hassle or expense once casting off.

Here are the problems. Home on the market now since late April, averaging over 2 showings a week...tons of interest, but only one lowball offer. Its a very nice somewhat unique home, and the feedback is not pricing, its just that the homes in the 7 figures just are not selling...none. So its a bit of a soft market in the high end, but going like gangbusters in the more moderately priced homes. On the bright side it has literally been the best summer we have ever had here in Michigan by a wide margin. I've been boating every day as my home is on the water, so from that standpoint its been good. Problem 2, girlfriend of 2 years who was/is supposed to join me on the journey. Turns out her finances are not at all what she had alluded to...instead of having a nice income, plenty of savings and stuff generally going great, as we get closer to this being a reality the deeper conversations happen to make sure we are on same page. Well truth comes out when her last job ended abruptly turns out she is $20k in debt and signed up for a 3 year car lease (wtf I know...we talked about this specifically). I am really struggling with this, she is a great person but hasn't been totally truthful it turns out and has made poor financial/life decisions. Having been extremely responsible in my life, just buying her way out of these issues is not a problem, but it doesn't feel right. When we go I'll have a companion I feel and not a partner. I was always footing the entire bill anyway, but hadn't expected that she'd just be leaving behind a bunch of debt and have to ask me for $20 every time she wanted to buy something. I just feel that at 37 this woman should have been upfront and have her act together.

So now here I am, the plan was to start the season in the Caribbean at the end of the year and see how it goes. I'm wondering if I should just go alone and get a boat super simple to single hand, should I wait and let her get her act together and give me more time to wrap things up here? Obviously I understand there is more to every story including this one, but I just need to vent a little bit because I'm bummed out. To further complicate things the company I sold 18 months ago to my partners who thought is was a cash cow is now struggling mightily and I get calls/texts/emails weekly from the key employees who remained asking me to start another company and they'll all jump ship. Ugh, I thought I had the plan to sell off into the sunset all worked out and now I feel the tentacles reaching to drag me back in...

ok rant over, going for a paddle, hope you all have a great weekend!
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Old 23-07-2016, 09:19   #43
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

Quote:
Originally Posted by ol1970 View Post
Okay, admittedly this is a little bit of a venting post with a small question at the end. Quick recap, r45, retired, finances in order to fund upcoming adventure, have done all the research on boats, completed all the ASA classes...committed to give this whole cruising thing a go. Plan was/is to sell home here since I don't want the hassle or expense once casting off.

Here are the problems. Home on the market now since late April, averaging over 2 showings a week...tons of interest, but only one lowball offer. Its a very nice somewhat unique home, and the feedback is not pricing, its just that the homes in the 7 figures just are not selling...none. So its a bit of a soft market in the high end, but going like gangbusters in the more moderately priced homes. On the bright side it has literally been the best summer we have ever had here in Michigan by a wide margin. I've been boating every day as my home is on the water, so from that standpoint its been good. Problem 2, girlfriend of 2 years who was/is supposed to join me on the journey. Turns out her finances are not at all what she had alluded to...instead of having a nice income, plenty of savings and stuff generally going great, as we get closer to this being a reality the deeper conversations happen to make sure we are on same page. Well truth comes out when her last job ended abruptly turns out she is $20k in debt and signed up for a 3 year car lease (wtf I know...we talked about this specifically). I am really struggling with this, she is a great person but hasn't been totally truthful it turns out and has made poor financial/life decisions. Having been extremely responsible in my life, just buying her way out of these issues is not a problem, but it doesn't feel right. When we go I'll have a companion I feel and not a partner. I was always footing the entire bill anyway, but hadn't expected that she'd just be leaving behind a bunch of debt and have to ask me for $20 every time she wanted to buy something. I just feel that at 37 this woman should have been upfront and have her act together.

So now here I am, the plan was to start the season in the Caribbean at the end of the year and see how it goes. I'm wondering if I should just go alone and get a boat super simple to single hand, should I wait and let her get her act together and give me more time to wrap things up here? Obviously I understand there is more to every story including this one, but I just need to vent a little bit because I'm bummed out. To further complicate things the company I sold 18 months ago to my partners who thought is was a cash cow is now struggling mightily and I get calls/texts/emails weekly from the key employees who remained asking me to start another company and they'll all jump ship. Ugh, I thought I had the plan to sell off into the sunset all worked out and now I feel the tentacles reaching to drag me back in...

ok rant over, going for a paddle, hope you all have a great weekend!
1) Rent it out.
2) Say bye-bye to your lying gf. Her plans are to leach off you after her own credit is destroyed. She's likely merely duplicitous, but when the best case scenario is too greedy or irresponsible to master counting, well, would you let such a person stand watch at dark o'thirty?
3) Your former partners, IF you wish to help them, can pay you the industry rate and not a penny less. If they did their due diligence, it's on them if they've run a good company into the bog.

Get a small, handy boat around 34-36 feet, pay for bigger tankage and better sails, redo the standing and running rigging and get the hell out of Dodge. Everything you've described: the big house, the sponging girlfriend and the inept former colleagues, are anchors tying you to shore.

You only got so many days is the short form.
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Old 23-07-2016, 09:21   #44
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

Living in the confined space of a boat that two inexperienced people can handle will involve much bigger accommodations to each other than adjusting to your girlfriend's finances. Try living in a small RV for a month and keep the bathroom door open the whole time. If, after that, you're still speaking, charter a boat that you can handle and cruise on that for a month. If, after that, you're still speaking, ask her to marry you. You never know, she may say yes.
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Old 23-07-2016, 09:40   #45
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Re: Ugh, losing my patience

Yep! The more money you have , the more problems you got, and the bigger they are. That's for sure. I don't understand why people with a $15,000,000.00 house quibble over 20 G's here and 20 G's there.In the big picture even if you took a 2 million dollar beating on your house, wouldn't 13 million be enough to get by on. I know the old saying that goes "everybody's broke, they're just broke at different levels".Stick with the girlfriend. Sounds like she's got her head and her heart in the right place, and she may be worth a lot more than your house and boat in the long run.Cheers
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