Two Questions from a Landlubber...

[mintyspilot]

Originally Posted by bastonjock

i had worked on ships before and had a couple of weeks as crew but never really sailed,my wife had resisted my getting a boat as we had young children,so i came up with a plan,

The wife (and her sister) both want to join in, so I'm lucky there. By 2016 bot the kids will be adults. That's one reason it is being planned so far ahead.

Originally Posted by bastonjock

1/ i went down to the local RYA lake and learned dinghy sailing
2/when out and bought a boat
3/took boat out and decided that i needed to learn more
4/got an experienced buddy to go out with me
5/Rya day skipper theory.day skipper practical and VHF course
6/do more sailing,now getting ready to sell small boat and move up a size or two

When I turn up and explain myself to the RYA instructor/coach/trainer/etc I will be laying out my "roadmap" and I hope that they will recommend a series of courses.

The whole plan is subject to revision at almost any instant....

[boatman61]

Unless your planning to go 'Commercial'.. RYA Coastal Skipper is as far as your really need to go to be honest... unless you need the psychological support of Offshore Skipper... all you need to know practically is learnt by then, the rest of it is only theoretical nav work... saves a fortune on unnecessary 'sea miles' you can get in your own boat.
I would also suggest an Ocean Survival Course and a good First Aid at Sea course.
There's a good place in Southampton and another in Plymouth.. both of which I've attended for refreshers when I was working on contract for Oil Exploration company's in the 80's/90's...
Personally I think life-rafts are a waste of money which would be better invested in a Tinker Tramp or something similar.. they not only provide good shelter but give you the means to help yourself, instead of drifting helplessly around at the mercy of wind and currents.... and that's if the stupid things open.
Furthermore the Tramp is a great tender/daysailer so its a winner all round....

[Dockhead]

Sorry for the rather late reply.

Originally Posted by mintyspilot

It woud be crusining with two, sometimes four and ocassionally six.

Then a 36-odd foot boat would be ok for most people provided it is a reasonably modern design (older boats tend to have less interior volume for a given length). A v-berth cabin, a quarter berth cabin, and overflow sleeping space in the saloon, is a pretty typical layout for that size of boat, and will more or less work for the purpose you mention.

When you get to 40 -- 45 feet the space and comfort for that group of people will be higher, but at a great deal more cost.

Originally Posted by mintyspilot

OK - it is time for "Stupid question of the month". What needs fixing to the tune of several thousand dollars per month every month or are you including living costs in that?

No living costs. You've got:

1. Marina berthing fees

2. Insurance

3. Scrubbing the bottom four times a year or so.

4. Hauling the boat at least once a year to antifoul.

5. Constant replacements of gear which simply wears out.

6. Maintenance of the propulsion engine, gearbox, prop (if it is folding or self-feathering)

7. Replace batteries every several years

8. Repairing things that break.

9. Regular replacements of standing and running rigging.

10. Maintaining your teak decks, if you have them (replacing them every 10 to 15 years is more expensive, in many cases, than repowering).

11. Charts (paper, electronic, or both), acquiring new ones or updating old ones.

12. Upgrades to electronic and navigation gear.

13. Regular maintenance, repair, replacement of canvas (spray hoods, biminis, covers)

14. Maintenance and repair of your dinghy and outboard motor.

15. Fuel, oil, filters, impellers, other engine consumables.

16. Regular replacement of pumps

17. Wax, cleaning supplies.

18. Regular replacement of sails as they wear out.

19. Maintenance and repairs of your heating system.

20. Yearly certification of your gas system

21. Taking care of and regular replacement of domestic goods like linens, cookware, crokery, etc.

22. Regular servicing and recertification of your life raft.

23. Maintenance and replacements of your safety equipment, like lifejackets, fire extinguishers.


and it goes on and on; that's just off the top of my head.


A cruising sailboat has a whole lot of complicated systems, all of which require constant maintenance:

1. Propulsion
2. D/C electrical supply, battery charging, lighting, navigation lights, etc.
3. Navigation & electronics
4. Plumbing, with a multitude of pumps
6. Heating and/or air conditioning
7. Cooking gas supply
8. Safety equipment
9. Rigging and sailing equipment

and could have many more systems:

10. generator
11. watermaker
12. inverter
13. telecomms, entertainment

etc.

If you take the annual cost of all of this, and average it out on a monthly basis, you will be doing very well to keep up with it all on a couple-three thousand a month on a modest-sized relatively simple boat where you are doing most of the work with your own hands.

It is possible but very difficult to get your expenses down below that level. The marina berth is probably the biggest single line item (we spend around $1600/mo. just on this); you can save money there by having a shorter boat (marinas charge by the foot), finding a cheaper marina (usually in an inconvenient location), or doing without a marina berth altogether and keeping your boat on some kind of mooring.

You can save other expenses by having a simpler boat with fewer systems and buying one in better condition, but that is a balancing act.


It is an enormous responsibility owning a cruising sailboat. Any cruising sailboat other than the most extremely spartan one is much more laborious and much more expensive to keep up than a house or car, or even house and car combined. There are only two ways for this responsibility to be something other than a nightmare: (a) you have a lot of money and you just hire in all of the work which needs to be done, best of all under supervision of a professional captain who works for you; or (b) your boat (size, complexity) corresponds to your means, AND you enjoy working on it and tinkering with it; you regard all those systems as really fun toys which give you pleasure to mess around with; it doesn't bother you that you work on the boat for several hours for every hour you spend sailing.

I guess there is a third way: (c) you buy a boat in reasonably good condition, just use it and let it gradually fall apart without letting that bother you, meanwhile doing only the minimum work which will keep her afloat, and sell her on when it gets too bad.

My own way is (b). I enjoy working on the boat almost as much as I enjoy sailing, so it all works out fine for me. Even so it's very expensive, and even with decades of experience it will always cost more than you think.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Not Sure

A skilled individual can (usually) completely gut the interior of a boat and rebuild it entirely, usually by using a combination of embedding wood pieces or strips to the inside hull with epoxy and/or attaching fiberglass 'tabs' to the inside hull.

Unless you value your work at $0.50 an hour or less, this will never be an economically reasonable thing to do, compared to buying a boat you like in the first place. The hand-made, custom production of interior fitout of a sailboat on a one-off basis by someone who is not a professional is incredibly inefficient, that is, laborious, and expensive. You will either get horrible results, or you will expend a horrible amount of labor (and money), and unfortunately often both.

[feelsgood]

Dont know if this will help but I hope so. I put a pdf on the forum somwhere about geting a Sadler 29 ready for ocean passages. It out lines some of the sort of work you may face with a second hand boat. I am afraid I dont know where on this site it is but I am sure someone reading this will know where to find it

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Unless you value your work at $0.50 an hour or less, this will never be an economically reasonable thing to do, compared to buying a boat you like in the first place. The hand-made, custom production of interior fitout of a sailboat on a one-off basis by someone who is not a professional is incredibly inefficient, that is, laborious, and expensive. You will either get horrible results, or you will expend a horrible amount of labor (and money), and unfortunately often both.

Furthermore you'll probably have the boat for life... folks view these boats with great suspicion as do Surveyors.... either way its gonna cost you dear...