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Old 04-03-2014, 17:18   #46
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Re: Thinking too much about danger

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Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
Geez Vic, this seems to scream for a bow thruster.

One scary thing I recall was milling around off Catalina Is waiting to "race" back to Long Beach. Start line was the usual mob scene of weekend wonders like us. I was up on the bow of our Columbia 26 with a great view as we were T-boned by a bigass boat just like yours. The bowsprit missed the hull but pierced the cabin going in and coming out the other side. The wind never came and we motored home shaken, not stirred.
Too many $ for a bow thruster. Besides, we live on the hook. We've only gone into marinas 4 times in the last year.

I think you just illustrated the point that weekend warrior scenarios are scarier than cruising!

Vic
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Old 05-03-2014, 08:04   #47
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Re: Thinking too much about danger

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Geez Vic, this seems to scream for a bow thruster.

One scary thing I recall was milling around off Catalina Is waiting to "race" back to Long Beach. Start line was the usual mob scene of weekend wonders like us. I was up on the bow of our Columbia 26 with a great view as we were T-boned by a bigass boat just like yours. The bowsprit missed the hull but pierced the cabin going in and coming out the other side. The wind never came and we motored home shaken, not stirred.
Jeez crabby... you sure get around!

Twasn't me... I got no sprit... Besides... Only person I ever rubbed paint with at the Isthmus was my buddy.... I'm admitting that one of us deserved it....
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:20   #48
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Re: Thinking too much about danger

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If the OP, Tuffr2 is not Tuffrnuff, perhaps another lifestyle is advisable
I've reread the original post and haven't been able to find where he said he was afraid of any of those dangers or wasn't willing to handle them.

So what you are saying is if there is any fear at all in sailing then we shouldn't be doing it?

I fear getting caught in water spouts or hurricanes/typhoons even though I've been in them on a Navy destroyer. I couldn't imagine the abuse of a smaller sailing vessel in those conditions.
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Old 05-03-2014, 13:13   #49
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Re: Thinking too much about danger

I think most will agree sailing is mostly a matter of risk management. Some things can certainly be dangerous, but we try to understand the risks and think of ways to minimize them or deal with them once they occur. Carry spare parts, avoid hurricane seasons, sail tradewind routes, have back-ups for vital pieces of equipment,...

My big fear however doesn't have anything to do with what I know, or what I can learn from reading/watching video's. I have refitted every system on the boat and have the tools/parts/knowledge to do so a second time underway or at least jury-rig a temporary solution. The hull is thick steel, so it can't just crack upon impact. I've studied heavy weather tactics and meteorology, and I have the gear on board to get last minute updates on weather.

My big fear comes with the one thing I lack of: experience. How do you learn how to cope with heavy weather at sea? How do you learn to cross and ocean and spend weeks away from land? How do you learn to deal with the need for an important replacement part far away from civilisation? The easy answer is "go with somebody who has the experience and sail with them until you think you've experienced every eventuality in their company". This however, is a process of many, many years and it is in my opinion another one of those reasons why so many boats never leave the dock for that dream-journey.

If I don't leave next season, I won't until I'm retired and maybe I won't ever. I know the boat inside out, I know the route inside out, I read/studied every sliver of information I could find about every aspect I could think of. But I have only basic sailing experience in the North Sea...

There's a risk to asses for ya.
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Old 05-03-2014, 13:51   #50
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Re: Thinking too much about danger

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We have had some unpleasant things happen at sea, but there are two which still stand out for me.

One, after leaving Bay of Islands, NZ, for Fiji, about 3 days out, we both came down with the Victoria A flu, ..... To me, that was the scariest one.

Two, we were caught in a deepening cut off low between Australia and Lord Howe Is. ....
Thanks, Ann, for putting that up for our vicarious benefit.

While I can well understand how ill-health of that intensity is the worst concern (given that other bad things that could happen are not necessarily going to avoid "piling on", and in some cases will take the opportunity to do so...), your other story had my toes curling like shrimp on a griddle, too ....
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Old 05-03-2014, 15:19   #51
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Re: Thinking too much about Danger

^^^
Thanks for the kind words, Andrew.

The quality of the experiences was so different for me. In the first case, the fear came afterwards, when I was recovering enough to think about it, as it were. While we were so sick, all we wanted was rest, a bowl, and access to the toilet.

In the second, the emotional impact was qualitatively different. Jim had been dismasted before (in his Catalina 22), it was my first experience (and I hope, last). It was pitch dark when it happened, so my job was just to carry the torch. It took months for us to get the boat restored to sailing condition, and if he felt traumatized by the event, he seemed to heal it by the restoration--we did almost all our own work, but had to buy spar and running rigging, etc.,etc. Then we had a shakedown cruise to Tasmania.

The decision to cut away the mast rather than figure out if there might possibly be a way to save it was based on the fact of its bearing on the hull in still 3 m. swell, which was a job that really would have had to wait for daylight, and would have involved being in the water for quite a while. It took 4 grown men to carry it on land, with nothing high to raise it to the deck, it would have had to have been towed astern for 75 mi. or so. We were in no danger unless the mast ate its way through, we had enough fuel to get in. We took a lot of flak about how we should have saved the mast. Self insured, too.

In terms of this thread, except as far as minimizing hazards that bother us, thinking about danger is absolutely fruitless unless it leads to risk reduction. Fix what you want to, deal with what happens, and any landing you walk away from you learn from.

Ann
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Old 05-03-2014, 15:26   #52
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Re: Thinking too much about Danger

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
^^^

The decision to cut away the mast rather than figure out if there might possibly be a way to save it was based on the fact of its bearing on the hull in still 3 m. swell, which was a job that really would have had to wait for daylight, and would have involved being in the water for quite a while. It took 4 grown men to carry it on land, with nothing high to raise it to the deck, it would have had to have been towed astern for 75 mi. or so. We were in no danger unless the mast ate its way through, we had enough fuel to get in. We took a lot of flak about how we should have saved the mast. Self insured, too.


Ann
Ann...

You and Jim are here to tell us the story of losing a rig...

That in itself is the reason for cutting it loose...
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Old 05-03-2014, 16:46   #53
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Re: Thinking too much about danger

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Originally Posted by Orchidius View Post
.

If I don't leave next season, I won't until I'm retired and maybe I won't ever. I know the boat inside out, I know the route inside out, I read/studied every sliver of information I could find about every aspect I could think of. But I have only basic sailing experience in the North Sea...

There's a risk to asses for ya.
Go as soon as you can. The experience is easy and you will pick it up as you go along. Really the pesimists have gained such a foothold into this forum that they all think no one should do anything.

Get out there. Its not that difficult. You will enjoy being out there more without some dopey "experienced" person with you, and you will learn much more and faster.



Its just not that hard!
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Old 05-03-2014, 17:31   #54
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Re: Thinking too much about danger

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If I don't leave next season, I won't until I'm retired and maybe I won't ever. I know the boat inside out, I know the route inside out, I read/studied every sliver of information I could find about every aspect I could think of. But I have only basic sailing experience in the North Sea..
If you can handle the North Sea you can sail anywhere. I learned off Fraserburgh outside the harbour entrance you see in my avatar.
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Old 05-03-2014, 18:08   #55
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Re: Thinking too much about Danger

Tuff,

You've got it right, sailing is very dangerous. But recognizing that fact and preparing for those dangers will keep you afloat and in your boat. That is what makes sailing a life long challenge and something that, for me, will never get boring.
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Old 05-03-2014, 21:51   #56
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pirate Re: Thinking too much about danger

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Jeez crabby... you sure get around!

Twasn't me... I got no sprit... Besides... Only person I ever rubbed paint with at the Isthmus was my buddy.... I'm admitting that one of us deserved it....
Yep. I'm from Redondo. My stepdad had a slip on Palawan way in MDR.

I once "rubbed paint" with a sweet young thing up in the scrub bushes above Avalon. A night to remember, not that it matches Ann's scary story of losing the rig. But a thorn in a butt cheek is no laughing matter either.
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Old 05-03-2014, 22:53   #57
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Re: Thinking too much about Danger

Fears?
Tax authorities. Immigration/customs officials (just a few, most are nice). Senators. Congresspeople. High-fructose corn syrup. Inflation. Non-obviously bad repairs. Fuel tank sludge. Lack of backing plates/poorly secured heavy stuff. Old vinyl-covered lifelines/non-obvious rigging meathooks or cracks. Mediocre schools. Dried-out gaskets in deck fills. My dumb mistakes. Someone hearing me "sing".
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Old 05-03-2014, 23:09   #58
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Re: Thinking too much about Danger

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Ann...

You and Jim are here to tell us the story of losing a rig...

That in itself is the reason for cutting it loose...
It's also another lesson. Don't try to deny the situation. Don't let pride keep you from doing the right thing. When you need help, call for it. Whatever it is, err on the side of caution. Yes, someone might say you should have gone on or done it without help. But who cares. You are safe.

We saw a powerboat one day about a mile and half off shore, so in the gulf stream where we are. They had trouble, could not get restarted, and conditions were getting rougher and forecast to get worse. Find out they'd been floating around trying to get it started for three hours. Had made a point not to wave other vessels over and, in spite of having tow insurance, hadn't called as they found it too embarrassing. Obviously they were new. A little experience but not on their own boat. We had them call tow and we stayed near them while they waited. Tow was there in 15 minutes and within another 30 they were into the ICW and then to a dock another 15. We met them there, had them come with us for dinner at our house. We talked them down from the ledge too so the next weekend they were back out after getting repairs. The only danger that day was if they continued to not seek help.
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Old 06-03-2014, 04:42   #59
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Re: Thinking too much about Danger

About to take a direct hit from a tornado in Pungo Creek NC (2006 ?). A fella on a trawler 1/2 mile away tried to weigh anchor and run. Hours later his boat was running in circles unmanned. They found him three days later.

On the other hand there are days like this perfect (for a trawler) crossing.
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Old 06-03-2014, 05:40   #60
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Re: Thinking too much about Danger

Faith based docking?
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