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Old 30-07-2015, 15:42   #16
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Re: The man/water interface...swim ladders

I bet that cruiser injuries that somehow involve the dinghy are in the vast majority. I know I'm hurt ankles, knees, hands etc. My wife is still trying to get over rolling her ankle from getting out of the dink at the dock from 2 years ago.

So all the "kids" out there don't start any belittling on the topic because I bet your time will come.
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Old 30-07-2015, 16:57   #17
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The man/water interface...swim ladders

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfyiii View Post
GILow

I think The physics of your picture will make for a tough climb. As the climber gets higher the bottom of the ladder will swing under the boat and the climber will be left hanging underneath an overhang.

If some horizontal supports were added between the ladder and the hull then it would stay verticle.

If the originaposter can find a ladder that works but needs a couple added steps under the water a ladder is relatively easy to make from rope ( search YouTube or google). I would nt suggest this for the whole thing but the treads underwater don't get the load of the above water ones. rope ( search YouTube or google). I would nt suggest this for the whole thing but the treads underwater don't get the load of the above water ones.

Yes, I was keeping the diagram simple. The horizontal supports idea would work but would defeat the purpose of the ladder swinging back under the transom when not in use. I considered bifolding arms but they would be hard to reach. I think if I were making such a ladder I'd latch it at the top. Something that engages automatically when you swing the ladder out for use. You could then manually release the catch from on deck before getting under way.

Of course the point about a midships ladder being easier to use near the middle of the boat is true, which is why I've kept our crappy hook on type, but luckily so far conditions have been mild enough that the stern ladder has been fine.

Matt


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Old 30-07-2015, 17:34   #18
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Re: The man/water interface...swim ladders

Thanks for all the ideas guys.

I was also thinking of going closer amidships. Our gates are a couple of feet behind the stays, in fact the runners normally store just at the gate.

The ladder can hook over the toe rails.

I may need a couple of push off extensions because the tumblehome will push the ladder out and cause it to rub at the broadest beam.

I can do some welding, so I might be able to fab this myself.
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Old 30-07-2015, 20:39   #19
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Re: The man/water interface...swim ladders

Hi.

One of the great things about a steel boat is you can add stuff to it or make some permanent studs or attachment points where other things can be attached when needed.

You have a relatively big boat.

MarkJ and I tend to think alike on a lot of issues. In this case he posted a photo of almost exactly what I had in mind for your situation/boat and it is what I would buy for my own boat too.

My thoughts:

1. Aluminum or heavy duty (250 - 300# capacity) resin (plastic) ladder.

2. I agree that the stern mount would be a problem, and potentially more dangerous. However if you added a swim platform back there that would bring a new possibility.

3. Rope ladders are often difficult to use and often a problem for older/heavier people.

4. Most small boarding ladders are too short and useless.

5. Notice the handrails or how the person boarding the boat will put their hands while using the ladder! Why? I had a girlfriend who lost the tip of one of her fingers as she was boarding a boat and the typical boarding ladder (that fits against the hull) crushed her finger (requiring a emergency visit to a small hospital on a remote island and the end of her holiday fun in the water). This happened as the boat rose and fell on the swell. The key thing there is to have the ladder OFF the hull or set off by some supports. Even better is to have protected hand rails so the hands will NOT be between the hull and the back of the ladder.

Let's go with the "side or midships" boarding ladder concept.

What I have in mind would be much less expensive than the $800 marine item (that is no longer made).

Instead, considering the age of the crew, and the desire to have a nice boarding ladder that is relatively easy to use and also safer than a rope ladder, I suggest the following be purchased and modified (if needed) or a "stud" type mount be added to the hull/deck to allow this item to be easily secured for use when needed.

The cost? The boarding ladder I have in mind is only $200 or less and at Amazon dot com it is only $185 (5 step model shown below) and has FREE shipping too! Pretty good deal in my opinion.

It also comes in either a 4 step or 5 step model (I would go with 5 steps). If that is still not going deep enough into the water, I would add a few steps (using rope and bar) that would hang down below the bottom step.

Aluminum dock ladder with 5 strong, aluminum steps. Easy board your dock with our largest dock ladder, this dock boarding ladder extends 60" below the top of your dock.
Wide, comfortable boarding steps. (5-1/2" depth x 16" width per step)
Tall aluminum hand rails make accessing your dock easy and comfortable
Each dock ladder comes with quick release ladder mounting hardware.
Makes boarding in deep water easy with 5 heavy duty aluminum boarding steps.

There is an optional $9 mounting kit available too.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...W0WDVCAJ4KNVYQ
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Old 30-07-2015, 20:59   #20
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The man/water interface...swim ladders

I installed my ladder at the stern. It swings up to the stern gate when stowed and is held in place by a single Velcro strap. There is a line on the center step that I can pull to lower the ladder from the water. ( Duck! ) The bottom step is only 1 1/2' below the water when deployed so I added another made from 3/4" line.

Oh yeah, I have stand offs with drug store cane cushions




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Old 30-07-2015, 22:46   #21
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Re: The man/water interface...swim ladders

If it has been mentioned already, then I missed it, so my apologies, but my main reason for the stern ladder was that I wanted something permanently in place. I sail solo a lot and if I go overboard and am lucky enough to be able to make it back to the boat, (most likely to go overboard after anchoring, since that is when I am running around doing "stuff") I want to be able to get back on board. No point having something that has to be deployed from the deck.


A few ideas suggested so far looked to be able to be deployed from water, but whatever you choose, I'd consider that as a factor.


Those of us fortunate enough to have boats with swim platforms or equivalent have a great advantage here. I'm still trying to work out some kind of platform to handle dive gear etc, but the ladder was a good compromise and there's a crane arm directly above it to hoist heavy stuff aboard.


Matt
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Old 31-07-2015, 01:13   #22
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Re: The man/water interface...swim ladders

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
If it has been mentioned already, then I missed it, so my apologies, but my main reason for the stern ladder was that I wanted something permanently in place. I sail solo a lot and if I go overboard and am lucky enough to be able to make it back to the boat, (most likely to go overboard after anchoring, since that is when I am running around doing "stuff") I want to be able to get back on board. No point having something that has to be deployed from the deck.


A few ideas suggested so far looked to be able to be deployed from water, but whatever you choose, I'd consider that as a factor.


Those of us fortunate enough to have boats with swim platforms or equivalent have a great advantage here. I'm still trying to work out some kind of platform to handle dive gear etc, but the ladder was a good compromise and there's a crane arm directly above it to hoist heavy stuff aboard.


Matt
Matt, as you know, our boat's different, we have a sugar scoop stern, boarding platform, fish killing bay, etc.. We stow our dive gear in a net bag in the stbd lazarette. I would think if you left your crane tackle down, you could hitch your used dive gear aboard by leaving its tackle down when you leave, etc.... I'm sure you get the pic. If you make your dive gear bag with a porous bottom, all the water will drain out. Even grommets will do the trick. Forgive me if I'm teaching granma to suck eggs, but a fresh water rinse down and then hang to dry before stowing.......

Cheers, friend.

For the OP, whether amidships, approx., or astern, bracing the top of the ladder will be key, and perhaps not easy.
Possibly amidships easier, because folding braces below the outmost curve of the tumblehome to keep it off there would add stability.



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Old 31-07-2015, 01:45   #23
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Re: The man/water interface...swim ladders

I know it is a very drastic solution, but the absolute best way to equip your (or my) metal boat for boarding is to cut step "pockets" directly into the topsides of the hull. Common on work boats and barges, these are flush with the hull surface with nothing sticking out. The lower edge of these pockets usually have a horizontal lip or rod that makes a handhold or toe step.

Pros: Available for use all the time. Nothing to maintain. Indestructible.

Cons: Visually unappealing. Slows down the boat some tiny portion of a knot. Installation difficult as the nearby interior and insulation must be removed prior to welding.

I wish I had done this on Panope when the boat was still sitting in my driveway. My freeboard is so low amidships that perhaps only one of these toe pockets would be needed above waterline and a second just below waterline.

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Old 31-07-2015, 03:07   #24
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Re: The man/water interface...swim ladders

Good point Steve. There is a recent thread from a couple building a Roberts 37 where the design has just this setup. And there's a Roberts 44 just down from my boat with what you describe. Not pretty but I actually find function the most visually appealing form of all.


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Old 31-07-2015, 05:01   #25
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Re: The man/water interface...swim ladders

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They sold the business and moved overseas. No longer making the boat ladders. They have one 7 step unit left, for abot $800, plus shipping etc.
Bummer. They are the best ladders I've ever seen or used. I'd say buy that last ladder (if 7-steps aren't too much). You won't regret it.

The website is still humming along. Do you know if the new owners are carrying on with the business and offering the same quality product? Hope so.
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Old 31-07-2015, 05:41   #26
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Re: The man/water interface...swim ladders

Sexy boat Hpeer, I have high freeboard and a canoe stern as well. I have a nice stable wide wood swim ladder that clips on to D rings fixed just below my toe rail. Its heavy, but is a dream to climb, I unfortunately dont have pics. The ladder mounts just aft of my shrouds and the life line can be detached at the top of the ladder.

If its just me I don't bother with it, I just scale up the rub rails, but my wife can use it as well as my parents in their late 60's.

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Old 31-07-2015, 05:44   #27
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Re: The man/water interface...swim ladders

Get a swim platform and the ladder that goes with it

http://www.batsystem.se/en/badplattf...lbat/60-serien

Something like this has the advantage as it will make getting in and out of the dinghy easier. Somewhere to rest your shopping when getting off the dinghy. If you fall in, you can easily access the folded up ladder. Use it if you ever Med moor (no more climbing steep planks)

And you can use it as a swim platform


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Old 31-07-2015, 07:02   #28
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Re: The man/water interface...swim ladders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Bummer. They are the best ladders I've ever seen or used. I'd say buy that last ladder (if 7-steps aren't too much). You won't regret it.

The website is still humming along. Do you know if the new owners are carrying on with the business and offering the same quality product? Hope so.
Here is their website. They just confirmed they will not be producing boat ladders. Presumably they will do dock ladders.

FWIW, I have a 5 step on the small boat. Wonderful.

I just ordered the 7 step. The last thing I need right now, in prepping for retirement and get-away, is one more project.


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Old 31-07-2015, 07:08   #29
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Re: The man/water interface...swim ladders

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Get a swim platform and the ladder that goes with it

60 series

Something like this has the advantage as it will make getting in and out of the dinghy easier. Somewhere to rest your shopping when getting off the dinghy. If you fall in, you can easily access the folded up ladder. Use it if you ever Med moor (no more climbing steep planks)

And you can use it as a swim platform


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It would be nice, but it would interfere with the wind vane">Aries wind vane.

I have considered getting a BIG inner tube and having the ladder go down into the center of that.
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Old 31-07-2015, 07:38   #30
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Re: The man/water interface...swim ladders

Don't mess around with any of the store bought cheap ones. You'll be using it all the time, if knee problems aren't an issue for you... it will be soon. The biggest problem will be getting from the dinghy up onto the ladder and vice versa. For some reason, women don't like to step across.

Have a custom heavy duty ladder fabricated by a local stainless steel guy. It'll be money well spent. If you first try anything less, you'll only be wasting your money because you'll eventual go custom anyway when the store bought lets you down... literally. You can really get hurt messing around with a crappy boarding ladder. Insist on flat stair treads, much easier on your feet and less slippery. What Markj showed is what you need. Heavy duty.

The swim platform is also an excellent idea. Our boat has a sugar scoop stern with a self deploying smim ladder. Somewhat the same idea. Women seem to prefer the method of sliding across from the platform to the dinghy on their bums. Men seem to prefer the step across method. Ask your wife what she wants.

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